hasselblad Sat, 30 Sep 2000 Volume 1 : Number 1004 In this issue: Re: Fill flash with 501C and Sunpak 285 Re: Fill flash with 501C and Sunpak 285 Re: Fill flash with 501C and Sunpak 285 Re: Fill flash with 501C and Sunpak 285 100MM CF Re: hassy swc non t* vs new 903 Sunpak in auto mode Re: Sunpak in auto mode RE: Fill flash with 501C and Sunpak 285 Re: Fill flash with 501C and Sunpak 285 Re: HUG: 70mm back 'issues' Re: 100MM CF Re: 100MM CF Re: Fill flash with 501C and Sunpak 285 Re: 100MM CF Re:C41 push/pull Re: Fill flash with 501C and Sunpak 285 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 09:02:29 EDT From: Stymulus@aol.com To: hasselblad@kelvin.net Subject: Re: Fill flash with 501C and Sunpak 285 Message-ID: <3b.a85b4be.2705ece5@aol.com> Thanks Henry P. and everybody for the flash advice. I am assumeing this will work with say a metz 45-ct and a vivitar 283 as well. Have a great weekend, Brian In a message dated 9/28/00 1:05:07 PM, henryp@bhphotovideo.com writes: << At 03:07 AM 09/27/2000, you wrote: > > No. Here's an example. > > Ambient light calls for f/8 @ 1/250th sec > > set camera as above > > set non-TTL auto flash to produce f/5.6 > > Shoot. > >With the 1:2 ratio above, you'll need to stop the lens down an >additional 1 stop over the ambient expsoure (without changing the >shutter speed, of course) to get a proper exposure. The resulting >lighting ratio will give quite open shadows. I do this all the time, and in fact do it with my double light wedding system and have never found the need to nor has my lab (Burrell) ever suggested I do so. -- regards, Henry Posner Director of Sales and Training B&H Photo-Video, and Pro-Audio Inc. http://www.bhphotovideo.com ----- >> ------------------------------ Date: 28 Sep 2000 19:32:20 +0800 From: "Patrick Bartek" To: hasselblad@kelvin.net Subject: Re: Fill flash with 501C and Sunpak 285 Message-ID: > I have 503 c/x with TTL, Do these same rules for fill apply with say a metz > 45 with the TTL working? I don't think the auto-fill flash will work with TTL metering. Depends on if the TTL metering integrates both flash and ambient exposures. You need to be able to set the ambient exposure separately from the flash for the auto-fill flash technique to work correctly, and I don't think this can be done with auto-TTL metering. > In a message dated 9/23/00 11:08:04 PM, bartek@pdai.com writes: > > << > At 03:56 AM 09/20/2000, you wrote: > > >so you set the camera AND flash 2 to 3 stops faster for good fill? > > > > No. Here's an example. > > Ambient light calls for f/8 @ 1/250th sec > > set camera as above > > set non-TTL auto flash to produce f/5.6 > > Shoot. > > With the 1:2 ratio above, you'll need to stop the lens down an > additional 1 stop over the ambient expsoure (without changing the > shutter speed, of course) to get a proper exposure. The resulting > lighting ratio will give quite open shadows. > > If you had set for 1:4 ratio (flash at f4.0), there is no need to stop > down. There is not enough light from the flash to noticeably affect > the highlight exposure, but it will noticeably lighten the shadow > values. I find a 1:4 ratio gives move "natural" looking shadows when > the sun is bright and direct. Also, when shooting the subject > backlit under those bright conditions, you only have to open the lens > up 1 stop (without changing the shutter speed) and you get a perfect > backlit filled exposure. -- Patrick Bartek NoLife Polymath Group bartek@pdai.com ------------------------------ Date: 28 Sep 2000 19:21:16 +0800 From: "Patrick Bartek" To: hasselblad@kelvin.net Subject: Re: Fill flash with 501C and Sunpak 285 Message-ID: > > Hey, thanks for all your help. I can stop wasteing film now! ??? on the > back lit: if you metered subject then adjusted flash to 1:4 shouldn't it > expose correctly without opening one stop? No. The shots will be overexposed because of the additional light of the flash. The flash is only suppose to lighten the shadows. In a backlit shot, the whole subject is in shadow. You want to leave the shot about 1 stop underexposed and the fill flash adds the extra 1 stop of light. Here's why my method below works with backlit: for proper exposure with backlit without fill flash, you normally open up two stops. (Remember those little exposure guide sheets based on the Sunny-16 rule you used to get with film.) Well, by opening up 1 stop (without changing anything else), you are underexposing the backlit shot by 1 stop, but you fill ratio has increased by a factor of two; and this is that extra stop of light you need to achieve the correct exposure. > > In a message dated 9/23/00 11:08:04 PM, bartek@pdai.com writes: > > << > At 03:56 AM 09/20/2000, you wrote: > > >so you set the camera AND flash 2 to 3 stops faster for good fill? > > > > No. Here's an example. > > Ambient light calls for f/8 @ 1/250th sec > > set camera as above > > set non-TTL auto flash to produce f/5.6 > > Shoot. > > With the 1:2 ratio above, you'll need to stop the lens down an > additional 1 stop over the ambient expsoure (without changing the > shutter speed, of course) to get a proper exposure. The resulting > lighting ratio will give quite open shadows. > > If you had set for 1:4 ratio (flash at f4.0), there is no need to stop > down. There is not enough light from the flash to noticeably affect > the highlight exposure, but it will noticeably lighten the shadow > values. I find a 1:4 ratio gives move "natural" looking shadows when > the sun is bright and direct. Also, when shooting the subject > backlit under those bright conditions, you only have to open the lens > up 1 stop (without changing the shutter speed) and you get a perfect > backlit filled exposure. > >> -- Patrick Bartek NoLife Polymath Group bartek@pdai.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 10:39:34 EDT From: InfinityDT@aol.com To: hasselblad@kelvin.net Subject: Re: Fill flash with 501C and Sunpak 285 Message-ID: <36.c003a56.270603a6@aol.com> In a message dated 9/29/00 10:22:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time, bartek@pdai.com writes: << > I have 503 c/x with TTL, Do these same rules for fill apply with say a metz > 45 with the TTL working? I don't think the auto-fill flash will work with TTL metering. Depends on if the TTL metering integrates both flash and ambient exposures. You need to be able to set the ambient exposure separately from the flash for the auto-fill flash technique to work correctly, and I don't think this can be done with auto-TTL metering. >> Auto-fill flash is a function of a camera body, not a flash. Any Metz TTL flash will only work within the TTL metering capabilities of the camera. The 503's do only straight TTL flash making the "assumption" that the flash is the main light source. If all you want is a touch of fill to lighten shadows then you have to trick the flash into underexposing, by means of setting the ISO dial on the camera to a higher EI than the film in use (eg for ISO 100 film, set the TTL dial at 320 for a flash fill of -1.7 stops). This assumes the aperture/shutter speed is set to deliver correct ambient exposure without taking the flash into consideration. I often shoot Portra 400NC outdoors with a small Metz 32 shoe-mount unit used TTL with the camera control set at EI 1000 which is only a -1.3 but that's as far as the dial goes. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 08:08:56 -0700 From: "RICH" To: Subject: 100MM CF Message-ID: <000501c02a27$2fe4f880$187e273f@rjiredff> I have had both the 100MM CF and C versions and they BOTH are the sharpest optics I have ever used. I have no idea if the formula was changed or if in the case of the 80MM & 150MM just the mount changed with the formula remaining the same. I do agree that the 100MM is THE sharpest lens in the Hassi lineup. Rich San Diego ------------------------------ Date: 28 Sep 2000 19:00:54 +0800 From: "Patrick Bartek" To: hasselblad@kelvin.net Subject: Re: hassy swc non t* vs new 903 Message-ID: > Has anybody compared the quality of pictures from an old swc non T* biogon > kit to the newer ones. I could get a non t* for about $2000 while buying a > new biogon 903 would cost about $5000? Similar used 903's are going for at > least $3500 with about $4000 for a good kit. I have, but only in a cursory manner. I examined a friends chromes taken with his T* SWC/M and shots taken with a non-T* SWC under the same lighting conditions. The only shots that were readily noticeable as taken with the multicoated lens were those that had very bright specular light sources like sunlight bouncing off water, etc. The T* lens had considerable less flare. However, for all other shots with "average" lighting, the pictures were almost indistinguishable, with the T* lenses having very slightly darker, richer shadows (less flare to reduce the Dmax). > Is it worth the extra price? Unless you're going to be shooting a lot of high flare prone photos, I think non-T* is fine. Just use the pro-shade. If you really want T*, you can save money by getting a used black lens SWC/M, the one in Compur shutter. Just saw a couple go on eBay for around $2000, body and finder only. They were both in Ex++ condition. -- Patrick Bartek NoLife Polymath Group bartek@pdai.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 11:17:41 -0500 From: "Mark Wrigley (EDB)" To: "'hasselblad@kelvin.net'" Subject: Sunpak in auto mode Message-ID: I recently rattled off a bunch of shots of people in a restaurant using my 501CM with the flash in auto mode. I was disappointed to see they all came out underexposed by a stop or so. Subsequent shots were then done in manual mode and they worked OK. A week or two later I found this little piece of moulded black plastic floating around in the bottom of the camera case - it had a thin green band around it and a hole through it with a little perspex window, and I couldn't figure out where it came from or what it was supposed to do. I thought my 2yo boy musta been playing in there and left part of a cheap plastic toy behind. Anyway, it looked like it had a specific purpose in life, so I kept it instead of tossing it away. A few days later when I was playing with the flash to find out what was wrong (you know, testing the various switch settings, seeing if the confirmation light lights up OK when the unit is pointed at different subjects) I noticed the big hole where the light-sensitive receptor watches for the reflected light and cuts off the unit when it has seen enough. I never paid much attention to it before, and I thought to myself - gee, the sensor is just sitting there out in the open, wouldn't it be better if it had some kind of barrel in front of it so that it was only looking at where the flash was pointed, rather than receiving light from everywhere. That's when the penny dropped. The black thingummy with the perspex window fitted perfectly so I glued it in and now I gotta rattle off another roll to see if that fixed the problem. Mark Rio de Janeiro ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 09:47:58 -0700 From: "Peter Klosky" To: , Subject: Re: Sunpak in auto mode Message-ID: Mark, Thanks for the nicely written report about your Sunpak coming apart. = Though I don't recall you mentioning the model, I'll certainly be checking = my 522 and 544 for a loose sensor cover before going out tomorrow. While I haven't had the problem you mention, I have had the nut holding = the sync jack come loose, and advise removing the plastic cover over it = forever, and keeping the nut tight. Further, keeping the battery contacts = clean helps, as does making sure the cell springs in the battery holders = are well tensioned. Peter >>> mark.wrigley@edb.ericsson.se 09/29/00 12:17PM >>> I recently rattled off a bunch of shots of people in a restaurant using my 501CM with the flash in auto mode. I was disappointed to see they all came out underexposed by a stop or so. Subsequent shots were then done in = manual mode and they worked OK. A week or two later I found this little piece of moulded black plastic floating around in the bottom of the camera case - it had a thin green = band around it and a hole through it with a little perspex window, and I = couldn't figure out where it came from or what it was supposed to do. I thought my 2yo boy musta been playing in there and left part of a cheap plastic toy behind. Anyway, it looked like it had a specific purpose in life, so I = kept it instead of tossing it away.=20 A few days later when I was playing with the flash to find out what was wrong (you know, testing the various switch settings, seeing if the confirmation light lights up OK when the unit is pointed at different subjects) I noticed the big hole where the light-sensitive receptor = watches for the reflected light and cuts off the unit when it has seen enough. I never paid much attention to it before, and I thought to myself - gee, the sensor is just sitting there out in the open, wouldn't it be better if it had some kind of barrel in front of it so that it was only looking at = where the flash was pointed, rather than receiving light from everywhere.=20 That's when the penny dropped. The black thingummy with the perspex window fitted perfectly so I glued it in and now I gotta rattle off another roll to see if that fixed the = problem. Mark Rio de Janeiro ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The Hasselblad Users Group Listserv is a public service of Absolute = Internet, Inc., which is not responsible for its content. This mailing = list is in no way affiliated with Victor Hasselblad AB, it's subsidiaries, = or affiliates. To change your subscription status, go to: http://mail.kelvin.net/guest/Rem= oteListSummary/Hasselblad=20 Digest archives are stored at http://www.kelvin.net/hasselblad/hassy.htm=20= Searchable archives can be found at http://www.listquest.com/arts/index.htm= l ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 13:09:16 -0400 From: "Paolo Pignatelli" To: Subject: RE: Fill flash with 501C and Sunpak 285 Message-ID: <000c01c02a38$00630b40$0100a8c0@paolopent> Seeing all this information, I was thinking about going out (on eBay (?)), buying something, and trying these techniques. Any advice on what to look for? I see that there are a few Vivitar 285's there, but there is also tons of other portable strobes. I have a 501C. TIA, Paolo Paolo Pignatelli -----Original Message----- From: InfinityDT@aol.com [mailto:InfinityDT@aol.com] Sent: Friday, September 29, 2000 10:40 AM To: hasselblad@kelvin.net Subject: Re: Fill flash with 501C and Sunpak 285 In a message dated 9/29/00 10:22:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time, bartek@pdai.com writes: << > I have 503 c/x with TTL, Do these same rules for fill apply with say a metz > 45 with the TTL working? I don't think the auto-fill flash will work with TTL metering. Depends on if the TTL metering integrates both flash and ambient exposures. You need to be able to set the ambient exposure separately from the flash for the auto-fill flash technique to work correctly, and I don't think this can be done with auto-TTL metering. >> Auto-fill flash is a function of a camera body, not a flash. Any Metz TTL flash will only work within the TTL metering capabilities of the camera. The 503's do only straight TTL flash making the "assumption" that the flash is the main light source. If all you want is a touch of fill to lighten shadows then you have to trick the flash into underexposing, by means of setting the ISO dial on the camera to a higher EI than the film in use (eg for ISO 100 film, set the TTL dial at 320 for a flash fill of -1.7 stops). This assumes the aperture/shutter speed is set to deliver correct ambient exposure without taking the flash into consideration. I often shoot Portra 400NC outdoors with a small Metz 32 shoe-mount unit used TTL with the camera control set at EI 1000 which is only a -1.3 but that's as far as the dial goes. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The Hasselblad Users Group Listserv is a public service of Absolute Internet, Inc., which is not responsible for its content. This mailing list is in no way affiliated with Victor Hasselblad AB, it's subsidiaries, or affiliates. To change your subscription status, go to: http://mail.kelvin.net/guest/RemoteListSummary/Hasselblad Digest archives are stored at http://www.kelvin.net/hasselblad/hassy.htm Searchable archives can be found at http://www.listquest.com/arts/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 13:24:46 EDT From: InfinityDT@aol.com To: hasselblad@kelvin.net Subject: Re: Fill flash with 501C and Sunpak 285 Message-ID: In a message dated 9/29/00 1:10:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, paolop@snet.net writes: << Seeing all this information, I was thinking about going out (on eBay (?)), buying something, and trying these techniques. Any advice on what to look for? I see that there are a few Vivitar 285's there, but there is also tons of other portable strobes. I have a 501C. TIA, Paolo >> I wouldn't buy a Vivitar 283 or 285 on e-bay, they're pretty cheap new, or at least I'd get a used one locally or from KEH or somewhere there's a guarantee and an easy way to return it. Just not worth the hassle considering the cost. You can't beat the Vivitars (literally, they'll take a beating). Another good flash for non-TTL is the Sunpak 383 Super. It's smaller than the 283, that's why I use it with my Leicas. But the 283 has a removable sensor you can leave in the camera shoe and take the flash off on a cord. I also use the snap-on "blinders" for the sensor that narrow the receptor angle. They're made and sold by Sto-Fen, the folks who make the Omni-Bounce diffusers. But the greatest (IMO) flash for users of both TTL and non-TTL Hasselblads (if you can find one, they're long discontinued) is the Metz 36CT7. This is a cobra-style flashgun, accepts the SCA300 modules, plus in the non-TTL autoflash mode you get a choice of 5 apertures f2.8 to f11 which makes it almost as convenient as TTL. Metz (Bogen) looked it up for me and said Lithium AA's are ok, for much faster recycle time. They also still service them. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 11:50:39 -0700 From: Mark Rabiner To: hasselblad@kelvin.net Subject: Re: HUG: 70mm back 'issues' Message-ID: <39D4E47F.8D621153@rabiner.cncoffice.com> Ragnar Hansen wrote: > > I've got eight of the 70mm mags, and they all need to be exercized regulary. If not all kinds of problems appear. > I have no problem loading them. I use Lihof Bereitscaftboxes which have place for one full and one empty cartridge. > I tape the front end of the film to the empty spool, and tape the linhof box before it goes to the freezer. > This is very convenient when you do not know how much film you need to use. Just take out as many as you prob need from the freezer in good time before shooting, and if do not use all, just throw them back. > Have you tried to extend dev time on the Porta 160NC with 30-45 sec? This way the density and colour saturation is brought up to what I find is a very good level. > > Ragnar Hansen > It's not to difficult to order a "push" with C41 is it? mark rabiner ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 11:53:24 -0700 From: Mark Rabiner To: hasselblad@kelvin.net Subject: Re: 100MM CF Message-ID: <39D4E524.DA89112D@rabiner.cncoffice.com> RICH wrote: > > I have had both the 100MM CF and C versions and they BOTH are the sharpest > optics I have ever used. I have no idea if the formula was changed or if in > the case of the 80MM & 150MM just the mount changed with the formula > remaining the same. I do agree that the 100MM is THE sharpest lens in the > Hassi lineup. > > Rich > San Diego > I think it's cool how the 100 works with the same shade as which goes on the lenses all the way to 250. That makes it the most efficient for this particular lens. I'm also fond of the look of the c lens for this focal length. mark rabiner ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 21:55:00 +0200 From: "Q.G. de Bakker" To: Subject: Re: 100MM CF Message-ID: <003201c02a50$82f63e20$2de1f1c3@qnu99> RICH wrote: > I have had both the 100MM CF and C versions and they BOTH are the sharpest > optics I have ever used. I have no idea if the formula was changed or if in > the case of the 80MM & 150MM just the mount changed with the formula > remaining the same. I do agree that the 100MM is THE sharpest lens in the > Hassi lineup. Indeed only the mount changed. Why change a perfect lens design? ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 22:02:36 +0200 From: "Q.G. de Bakker" To: , Subject: Re: Fill flash with 501C and Sunpak 285 Message-ID: <003301c02a50$846f2280$2de1f1c3@qnu99> Paolo Pignatelli wrote: > Seeing all this information, I was thinking about going out (on eBay (?)), > buying something, and trying these techniques. Any advice on what to look > for? I see that there are a few Vivitar 285's there, but there is also tons > of other portable strobes. I have a 501C. Just a (superfluous) reminder: all talk about TTL-flash metering and adjusting film-speed setting on your camera does not apply to a 501 C as it lacks this feature. All settings are done (not) matching aperture settings on flash and lens. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 21:04:38 EDT From: BLADHASS@aol.com To: mark@rabiner.cncoffice.com, hasselblad@kelvin.net Subject: Re: 100MM CF Message-ID: The 100mm CF is the most amazing lens. I have two 16x20 from Portra 400VC that are so sharp you can see the individual whispers of hair on the head of this soccer girl I photographed. The catch lights in her eyes are crystal clear. I also have a 16x20 individual of a girl on a swimming team. You can see the little mark that gets left on the arm from the childhood shot that most people have, just like under a magnifier. Its the perfect lens for the Hasselblad. Peter Peterson ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 18:53:05 -0700 From: Jim Brick To: hasselblad@kelvin.net Subject: Re:C41 push/pull Message-ID: <4.1.20000929184938.00cfb4c0@xsj02.sjs.agilent.com> At 11:50 AM 9/29/00 -0700, Mark Rabiner wrote: > >It's not to difficult to order a "push" with C41 is it? >mark rabiner No. Any good pro lab will push/pill C41. I just pushed some T400CN a half stop last week. Came out wunderbar. Jim ------------------------------ Date: 29 Sep 2000 15:57:51 +0800 From: "Patrick Bartek" To: hasselblad@kelvin.net Subject: Re: Fill flash with 501C and Sunpak 285 Message-ID: > At 03:07 AM 09/27/2000, you wrote: > > > No. Here's an example. > > > Ambient light calls for f/8 @ 1/250th sec > > > set camera as above > > > set non-TTL auto flash to produce f/5.6 > > > Shoot. > > > >With the 1:2 ratio above, you'll need to stop the lens down an > >additional 1 stop over the ambient expsoure (without changing the > >shutter speed, of course) to get a proper exposure. The resulting > >lighting ratio will give quite open shadows. > > I do this all the time, and in fact do it with my double light wedding > system and have never found the need to additional 1 stop over the ambient expsoure (without changing the shutter > speed, of course) to get a proper exposure.> nor has my lab (Burrell) ever > suggested I do so. Your lab just corrects for the overexposure. They probably think you're doing it on purpose, if they noticed at all. One stop is not all that much with today's color negative emulsions. I myself routinely overexpose negatives about 2/3 stop. Shoot a roll of chrome using your method and see what it looks like. My work over the past 20 years or so has been mostly with chromes, with and without fill flash. And the exposure methods I stated were for chromes. With a 1:2 fill, it IS necessary to stop down 1 stop for a correct exposure. -- Patrick Bartek NoLife Polymath Group bartek@pdai.com ------------------------------ End of hasselblad V1 #1004 ************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The Hasselblad Users Group Listserv is a public service of Absolute Internet, Inc., which is not responsible for its content. This mailing list is in no way affiliated with Victor Hasselblad AB, it's subsidiaries, or affiliates. To change your subscription status, go to: http://mail.kelvin.net/guest/RemoteListSummary/Hasselblad Digest archives are stored at http://www.kelvin.net/hasselblad/hassy.htm Searchable archives can be found at http://www.listquest.com/arts/index.html