hasselblad Thu, 3 May 2001 Volume 1 : Number 1215 In this issue: CFE lenses with 20x bodies... Maximum polarization? Re: CFE lenses with 20x bodies... Re: To Polarize or Not To Polarize Re: Polarizers - To Polarize or Not To Polarize Re: Maximum polarization? Re: Maximum polarization? Re: CFE lenses with 20x bodies... Re: Polarizers - To Polarize or Not To Polarize Re: CFE lenses with 20x bodies... RE: CFE lenses with 20x bodies... RE: CFE lenses with 20x bodies... Re: hasselblad V1 #1214 RE: CFE lenses with 20x bodies... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 09:26:56 -0400 From: "Austin Franklin" To: Subject: CFE lenses with 20x bodies... Message-ID: Has anyone else used a CFE lense with a 20x (for me a 205) series body and found it awkward to use the lenses built-in shutter with the camera metering system? There are few 'issues' I have with the way Hasselblad did this 'interface'. One is, though the CFE lense has the electronic data bus connection, it does not appear that it transfers the C lense shutter speed to the body. Second, is the way the metering system works with the CFE lense when using the lenses shutter...you don't use manual mode, but any other mode (all the automatic modes, Z, D and Ab) and it displays "SEt" and the shutter speed to set the lense to. But nothing is automatic, though you are in an automatic mode! This is more an annoyance, and user interface issue...it just would have made more sense, to me, to use a manual lense with the cameras set to manual metering mode. Third is when you use the side 'lock' button with the CFE lense when using the lenses shutter, it does not display "L" (for locked) in the viewfinder. D and Z modes don't display "L" because they are technically always locked...but Ab mode does display "L" when locked with the side lock button. I think if the exposure reading is locked, it should say "L" in every mode (except may be D&Z...). It is a really inconsistent interface. If Hasselblad did transfer the CFE built-in shutter speed to the body, then the CFE lense could be used (when using the lenses built-in shutter) in manual metering mode exactly like the FE lenses...which, IMO, would have made the UI (user interface) cleaner. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 09:34:56 -0700 From: Nitzan Tagansky To: Subject: Maximum polarization? Message-ID: You spoke about turning to max polarization. Is this somethjing you can do with a Hasselblad polarizer? Not clear. thanks! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 06:52:13 -0700 From: Mark Rabiner To: hasselblad@kelvin.net Subject: Re: CFE lenses with 20x bodies... Message-ID: <3AF0110D.7C08D311@rabiner.cncoffice.com> Austin Franklin wrote: > > Has anyone else used a CFE lense with a 20x (for me a 205) series body and > found it awkward to use the lenses built-in shutter with the camera metering > system? > > There are few 'issues' I have with the way Hasselblad did this 'interface'. > One is, though the CFE lense has the electronic data bus connection, it does > not appear that it transfers the C lense shutter speed to the body. > > Second, is the way the metering system works with the CFE lense when using > the lenses shutter...you don't use manual mode, but any other mode (all the > automatic modes, Z, D and Ab) and it displays "SEt" and the shutter speed to > set the lense to. But nothing is automatic, though you are in an automatic > mode! This is more an annoyance, and user interface issue...it just would > have made more sense, to me, to use a manual lense with the cameras set to > manual metering mode. > > Third is when you use the side 'lock' button with the CFE lense when using > the lenses shutter, it does not display "L" (for locked) in the viewfinder. > D and Z modes don't display "L" because they are technically always > locked...but Ab mode does display "L" when locked with the side lock button. > I think if the exposure reading is locked, it should say "L" in every mode > (except may be D&Z...). It is a really inconsistent interface. > > If Hasselblad did transfer the CFE built-in shutter speed to the body, then > the CFE lense could be used (when using the lenses built-in shutter) in > manual metering mode exactly like the FE lenses...which, IMO, would have > made the UI (user interface) cleaner. > Sounds like you've got yourself a $2500 exposure meter there Austin! Hasselblad needs a 120 Makro FE lens. That might turn my attention to it's high tech hijinks! Until then i just plod along like i did yesterday taking readings with my Gossen Luna Pro digital which i keep in my top shirt pocket on it's string set to EV mode. A real pleasure! EV 16 and be there! (My CM body cost me $500) Mark Rabiner Portland, Oregon USA http://www.rabiner.cncoffice.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 10:19:00 -0400 From: Henry Posner/B&H Photo-Video To: Subject: Re: To Polarize or Not To Polarize Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010502101801.00b5e850@bnhpop1.bhphotovideo.com> At 03:49 AM 05/02/2001, you wrote: >I have been reading that with the new films color saturation is excellent >and, therefore, Polarizers are not necessary. What says the list? Pol filters are useful for far more than enhancing color saturation. Nothing else darkens the blue of the sky w/out changing the clouds; nothing else reduces or eliminates non-metallic reflections; and pol filters absorb as much or more UV as UV filters do. -- regards, Henry Posner Director of Sales and Training B&H Photo-Video, and Pro-Audio Inc. http://www.bhphotovideo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 09:22:07 -0500 From: "Waldo Berry" To: Subject: Re: Polarizers - To Polarize or Not To Polarize Message-ID: I always approach polarizer use in this way. If I want to shoot through = glass or into a car and I want no glare, use a polarizer. If it is really sunny and there is a lot of sun reflecting off leaves and = grass and such, use a polarizer. If there is water and I want it to look = like water instead of shinny glass, use a polarizer. I am picky on using = a polorizor for bluer sky, why, because you are removing something, all = the light except that moving in the polorizers orientation. Thus, to = much light is a good reason to use one. It's like adding nutral density = in some ways, it cuts away some of the light the film recieves. Everyone = knows light focused on the film is really a large number of circles of = light. The angles at which they hit form circles of focus and confussion.= The brighter settings can yeild undesirable results, the polarizer = helps reduce and control the angles the light comes in at, thus reducing = the confusion and often enhancing colors as a result. With the sky I = have found it best to shoot oppisite the sun or in early mornings to get = richer blues. Light moves from cool blue in the morning to reds and = yellows by afternoon. if your stuck with no control over the time you = shoot, a polarizer may be your only choice. Waldo >>> olenberger@email.msn.com 05/01/01 10:27PM >>> I think if you are photographing scenics you should own a polarizer, but = you should take exposures both with and without it, sort of like bracketing. = I was at the Getty Center in LA a few weeks ago, and had my camera but did = not have my polarizer. I took several archetectural shots with blue sky in = the picture, and at the time regreted not having my polarizer. I was using Velvia, and when looking at the chromes on a light table, one would swear that they were taken with a polarizer. The sky was a very deep and saturated blue but not unnatural. Had I used a polarizer, the result = would have been unnatural and contrasty. At the beach a couple of weeks ago, I used the polarizer and turned it to the maximum polarization to get a very dark sky, and when I looked at the chormes, I felt I over did it. On the other hand, I have used the polarizer and obtained results that looked pretty good. I suspect there is always a temptation (especially if you = have spent over $200 on the polarizer) to "get the most out of it" by turning = it to the max polarization, which can ruin a shot. -Fritz ----- Original Message ----- From: "s c o tt h i c ks" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 3:44 AM Subject: Polarizers - To Polarize or Not To Polarize > I have been reading that with the new films color saturation is = excellent > and, therefore, Polarizers are not necessary. What says the list? > > > Best Regards, > > s c o tt h i c ks > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > The Hasselblad Users Group Listserv is a public service of Absolute Internet, Inc., which is not responsible for its content. This mailing = list is in no way affiliated with Victor Hasselblad AB, it's subsidiaries, or affiliates. > > Please turn off HTML mail features prior to posting to this list. Use text mode only. > > To change your subscription status, go to: http://mail.kelvin.net/guest/RemoteListSummary/Hasselblad=20 > Digest archives are stored at http://www.kelvin.net/hasselblad/hassy.htm= =20 > Searchable archives can be found at http://www.listquest.com/arts/index.html=20 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The Hasselblad Users Group Listserv is a public service of Absolute = Internet, Inc., which is not responsible for its content. This mailing = list is in no way affiliated with Victor Hasselblad AB, it's subsidiaries, = or affiliates. Please turn off HTML mail features prior to posting to this list. Use = text mode only. To change your subscription status, go to: http://mail.kelvin.net/guest/Rem= oteListSummary/Hasselblad=20 Digest archives are stored at http://www.kelvin.net/hasselblad/hassy.htm=20= Searchable archives can be found at http://www.listquest.com/arts/index.htm= l ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 09:26:28 -0500 From: "Waldo Berry" To: Subject: Re: Maximum polarization? Message-ID: When you purchase your poleriser, make sure it rotates. I use drop in = lindahls and I also have a screw on type. You veiw through the lens and = rotate until you get the effect you want. I recommend you meter through = the polorizor to get you adjustment. Different andgles yeild diffent = readings. I always shot my film a half to a full stop over so I can take = into account filter adds. You will notice the leaves get greener and less = shiny and water goes from glassy to blue or green. Also, you can shoot = people in cars or through plate glass. If your shooting into or out of a = window, it can help there also. Waldo =20 >>> ntagansk@jcrew.com 05/02/01 11:34AM >>> You spoke about turning to max polarization. Is this somethjing you can = do with a Hasselblad polarizer? Not clear. thanks! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The Hasselblad Users Group Listserv is a public service of Absolute = Internet, Inc., which is not responsible for its content. This mailing = list is in no way affiliated with Victor Hasselblad AB, it's subsidiaries, = or affiliates. Please turn off HTML mail features prior to posting to this list. Use = text mode only. To change your subscription status, go to: http://mail.kelvin.net/guest/Rem= oteListSummary/Hasselblad=20 Digest archives are stored at http://www.kelvin.net/hasselblad/hassy.htm=20= Searchable archives can be found at http://www.listquest.com/arts/index.htm= l ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 07:55:27 -0700 From: Jim Brick To: hasselblad@kelvin.net, Cc: Nitzan Tagansky Subject: Re: Maximum polarization? Message-ID: <4.1.20010502075310.01e025e0@xsj02.sjs.agilent.com> At 09:34 AM 5/2/01 -0700, Nitzan Tagansky wrote: >You spoke about turning to max polarization. Is this somethjing you can do >with a Hasselblad polarizer? > >Not clear. > >thanks! You obviously don't own a polarizer. Get one, look through it (outside is best) and turn it. Only then will you understand. Explanations just won't work. Jim ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 08:19:17 -0700 From: Jim Brick To: hasselblad@kelvin.net, Subject: Re: CFE lenses with 20x bodies... Message-ID: <4.1.20010502080536.01e04340@xsj02.sjs.agilent.com> Austin, I have a 203FE and only one FE lens (110.) The rest are CFE and CFi lenses. I use the lens shutter quite often. There isn't anything out there that could not have an improved user interface. My JOBO ATL-2400 is a really really cool machine. But it has numerous operational frustrations. My ZBE enlarger and ZBE Starlite 55 closed loop computer driven color head is a magnificent piece of engineering. But it still has gotchas that cause occasional frustrations. These are things that one simply learns to live with. Quite often a little creative thinking can reduce the frustration level. Like anything I buy, I thoroughly investigate its operation before I buy. Especially when it is v-e-r-y expensive. I know you do this as well. So your dialog below must be just venting in hopes that Victor the second will pick up on it. ;) Jim At 09:26 AM 5/2/01 -0400, Austin Franklin wrote: >Has anyone else used a CFE lense with a 20x (for me a 205) series body and >found it awkward to use the lenses built-in shutter with the camera metering >system? > >There are few 'issues' I have with the way Hasselblad did this 'interface'. >One is, though the CFE lense has the electronic data bus connection, it does >not appear that it transfers the C lense shutter speed to the body. > >Second, is the way the metering system works with the CFE lense when using >the lenses shutter...you don't use manual mode, but any other mode (all the >automatic modes, Z, D and Ab) and it displays "SEt" and the shutter speed to >set the lense to. But nothing is automatic, though you are in an automatic >mode! This is more an annoyance, and user interface issue...it just would >have made more sense, to me, to use a manual lense with the cameras set to >manual metering mode. > >Third is when you use the side 'lock' button with the CFE lense when using >the lenses shutter, it does not display "L" (for locked) in the viewfinder. >D and Z modes don't display "L" because they are technically always >locked...but Ab mode does display "L" when locked with the side lock button. >I think if the exposure reading is locked, it should say "L" in every mode >(except may be D&Z...). It is a really inconsistent interface. > >If Hasselblad did transfer the CFE built-in shutter speed to the body, then >the CFE lense could be used (when using the lenses built-in shutter) in >manual metering mode exactly like the FE lenses...which, IMO, would have >made the UI (user interface) cleaner. > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >The Hasselblad Users Group Listserv is a public service of Absolute >Internet, Inc., which is not responsible for its content. This mailing list >is in no way affiliated with Victor Hasselblad AB, it's subsidiaries, or >affiliates. > >Please turn off HTML mail features prior to posting to this list. Use text >mode only. > >To change your subscription status, go to: >http://mail.kelvin.net/guest/RemoteListSummary/Hasselblad >Digest archives are stored at http://www.kelvin.net/hasselblad/hassy.htm >Searchable archives can be found at http://www.listquest.com/arts/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 17:54:40 -0700 From: Patrick Bartek To: hasselblad@kelvin.net Subject: Re: Polarizers - To Polarize or Not To Polarize Message-ID: <01050118024400.00509@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 01 May 2001, you wrote: > I have been reading that with the new films color saturation is excellent > and, therefore, Polarizers are not necessary. What says the list? A polarizer has uses other than increasing saturation: mainly increasing contrast and eliminating distracting reflections. As long as there are photographers, who need to make a better photograph, there will be polarizers -- as well as other filters. -- Patrick Bartek NoLife Polymath Group bartek@intermind.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 19:57:56 +0200 From: "Q.G. de Bakker" To: Subject: Re: CFE lenses with 20x bodies... Message-ID: <000001c0d347$b39b1dc0$dbeaf1c3@qnu350> Austin Franklin wrote: > Has anyone else used a CFE lense with a 20x (for me a 205) series body and > found it awkward to use the lenses built-in shutter with the camera metering > system? > > There are few 'issues' I have with the way Hasselblad did this 'interface'. > [...] All you need to know is what shutterspeed to set, and the 205 does display this info, doesn't it? You just set any aperture you want, point your camera, take a reading and it will display the appropriate shutter speed. The only thing that could make this any easier would be if the CFE lens' shutter could be controlled by the body. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 16:55:30 -0400 From: "Austin Franklin" To: , Subject: RE: CFE lenses with 20x bodies... Message-ID: > Sounds like you've got yourself a $2500 exposure meter there Austin! Well, not even! Actually, with the FE lenses, it works beautifully. They failed miserably with support for the F and CFE lenses (only when using the shutter in the CFE lense). The meter modes are very very nice, especially the "Z" mode, which is what I pretty much set it to when using FE or CFE lenses... I did figure out a rather nice way to use the "F" lenses though...use the "Ab" mode, which DOES allow corrections, and does not reset the correction between meterings...if you use the shutter release to take the exposure, and not the "lock" button on the side. The other modes, Z and D, require you to use the lock button on the side to take the reading, or you don't get a reading... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 17:27:43 -0400 From: "Austin Franklin" To: Subject: RE: CFE lenses with 20x bodies... Message-ID: > Like anything I buy, I thoroughly investigate its operation before I buy. To some degree, but there are certain things I'm only going to really 'understand' the implications of by use...at least that's true for me. > Quite often a little > creative thinking can reduce the frustration level. You are so right. I believe I have figured out about as best as can be, how to use the F and CFE lenses...Ab mode. It allows compensation to be programmed with the arrow keys, and doesn't re-set when using the shutter button...and meters with the shutter button (unlike Z and D modes, which require you to lock the exposure with the lock button...). Typically, I shoot at one aperture for a number of shots...and programming that compensation means I can focus and meter full open, and take advantage of the automatic mode...and not have to shoot wide open... > Especially when it is v-e-r-y expensive. I know you do this as well. So > your dialog below must be just venting in hopes that Victor the > second will > pick up on it. ;) More to see if anyone else had the same frustrations I did. I just got the CFE lense yesterday, I've been using the 80 CF with it up until now (as well as the 110/2 and 50/2.8 FE...but I still have the 150 and 250 in F, and have no plans on spending that kind of money for what little use they get, to upgrade the lenses for some time, at least). I am just SO surprised that they failed so in support for the F and CFE (with C shutter) when just give me the schematic and the code, and I could fix it in an hour! That's probably why I'm so frustrated...because I know how easy it would be to just do it 'right' in the first place ;-/ Thanks for your reply, I appreciate it. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 18:16:03 -0400 From: Russ & Kathy Thornton To: hasselblad@kelvin.net Subject: Re: hasselblad V1 #1214 Message-ID: <3AF08723.552E76AD@gdi.net> Greetings all, I just purchased a group of lenses and I am selling the ones I don't need. One in particular may be of some interest to someone on the group as a parts lens. It is an 80mm chrome model, serial number 5258816. It is missing the rear lens and the front lens is pitted. Very strange. The outside is in near excellent condition and the shutter mechanism is fine. Anyway if some one would like to make me an offer just e-mail me at radarguy@gdi.net. Russ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 18:36:16 -0400 From: "Austin Franklin" To: "Q.G. de Bakker" , Subject: RE: CFE lenses with 20x bodies... Message-ID: > > Has anyone else used a CFE lense with a 20x (for me a 205) > series body and > > found it awkward to use the lenses built-in shutter with the camera > metering > > system? > > > > There are few 'issues' I have with the way Hasselblad did this > 'interface'. > > [...] > > All you need to know is what shutterspeed to set, and the 205 does display > this info, doesn't it? > You just set any aperture you want, point your camera, take a > reading and it > will display the appropriate shutter speed. > The only thing that could make this any easier would be if the CFE lens' > shutter could be controlled by the body. It doesn't work at all in manual mode...you just get a little "c". Only in one of the automatic modes... To have to set the camera to one of the non-manual modes to manually meter for the CFE lenses, I believe, is a lack of intuitive and consistent interface design. Second, if the body DID read the shutter speed, than you could use it just like the FE lenses in M mode...instead of this 'new' mode just for the CFE lenses. The meter displays inter-speed shutter speed numbers, like 180 (which you can do with the FP shutter)...and I do not believe you can use inter-speed numbers with the CFE lense. There is no click stop for them. If I want to meter with shutter speed as a priority, I have to look what speed I set, and turn the aperture until I match that shutter speed in the display. If the shutter speed were displayed, then I would be able to meter with either shutter or aperture without having to take my eyes off the viewfinder. I find it awkward, and believe it could have been done better. ------------------------------ End of hasselblad V1 #1215 ************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The Hasselblad Users Group Listserv is a public service of Absolute Internet, Inc., which is not responsible for its content. This mailing list is in no way affiliated with Victor Hasselblad AB, it's subsidiaries, or affiliates. Please turn off HTML mail features prior to posting to this list. Use text mode only. To change your subscription status, go to: http://mail.kelvin.net/guest/RemoteListSummary/Hasselblad Digest archives are stored at http://www.kelvin.net/hasselblad/hassy.htm Searchable archives can be found at http://www.listquest.com/arts/index.html