hasselblad Sun, 13 May 2001 Volume 1 : Number 1225 In this issue: Extension Tubes (need your advice and help) Uncle Dick's Full Moon Number Two Re: Vignetting Re: Vignetting Re: Uncle Dick's Full Moon Number Two Re: Extension Tubes (need your advice and help) Re: Extension Tubes (need your advice and help) Re: Extension Tubes (need your advice and help) Re: Uncle Dick's Full Moon Number Two Re: Uncle Dick's Full Moon Number Two Re: Extension Tubes (need your advice and help) Re: Uncle Dick's Full Moon Number Two Re: Extension Tubes (need your advice and help) Re: Extension Tubes (need your advice and help) Re: Extension Tubes (need your advice and help) Re: Uncle Dick's Full Moon Number Two Re: Extension Tubes (need your advice and help) RE:RE: 903SWC shutter release button RE:RE: 903SWC shutter release button Re: Extension Tubes (need your advice and help) Re: Extension Tubes (need your advice and help) First Good Idea Second Good Idea Re: Uncle Dick's Full Moon Number Two Re: Uncle Dick's Full Moon Number Two Re: Uncle Dick's Full Moon Number Two Re: First Good Idea ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 18:00:30 +0800 From: ay To: Hasselblad Digest Subject: Extension Tubes (need your advice and help) Message-ID: <3AFD09BE.FE1C1D8@yahoo.com> Hi, I have a 503CW and a 80mm lens. As I can't afford to get the 120 Makro-Planar and would like to take pictures of small subjects and still life, I believe getting extension tube/s will be a good alternative. However, I would like to seek your advice and some clarification about extension tubes. 1. My 80mm can focus from 0.9m to infinity. When I use an extension tube, will the focus range become very narrow (i.e. only from certain distance to certain distance even you turn the focus ring all the way from 0.9m to infinity mark)? I believe the infinity focus ability will be lost. Moreover, is the longer the extension tube, the narrower the focus range becomes? 2. If the focus range really becomes very narrow, will the 120 Makro-Planar make the focus range wider due to its design for marco photography? 3. There are four extension tube available (8, 16, 32, 56mm). If I can afford to get three, which three should I get? I think the 16 and 32mm are must but I don't know if I really have to get one more. Any suggestion and experience? Thank you very much for your help. Albert ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 19:43:56 +0800 From: "Stein" To: Subject: Uncle Dick's Full Moon Number Two Message-ID: <004601c0dad9$01a62d00$edb237cb@oemcomputer> Dear Friends, It's that time again. As I stumbled out of the darkroom this afternoon - pasty pale, coughing, and woozy ( I love photography.) I saw the pile of old paper boxes has almost reached critical mass. There they sit, yellow, white, and orange, perfect condition, well made, too good the throw out, and empty. I use 8 x 10 paper - the boxes are the 100 size. A few 125 boxes from Agfa as they have had a promotion around here recently. A few mounting tissue boxes. What I need is a good idea about what can be done with them. I favour recycling in photography - hence my use of old out of date RC paper for toilet tissue in the guest bathroom - and I just can't bring myself to throw them out. The Second Full Moon Contest is simple. There are two prizes that will be posted out from Perth. One goes for the BEST idea for using up the paper boxes and one goes for the WORST* idea. Just post your ideas on the HB list before the 27th of May and I'll announce the winners at the end of the month. Prizes? As Nixon would have said....Trust me. Uncle Dick PS: Here is the Hasselblad link for the posting. I bought an outboard charger today that charges up the batteries for the EL series - so Ican use the ELX while the next day's batteries are filling up. It is the metal case that goes under the EL series. I paid $ 50 US for it. Did I get a good deal or did I get done? * Note spelling. No German sausage jokes, danke. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 19:54:40 +0800 From: "Stein" To: Subject: Re: Vignetting Message-ID: <004d01c0dada$760c09c0$edb237cb@oemcomputer> Dear Robin, Is your polarizer a thick mounting and ditto for the grad.ND? It could be that it is just out there a bit too far for the angle of view. I did this when I borrowed the daughter's zoom lens and combined it with my standard old polarizer and rubber lens hood on a Nikon body. I covered a garden wedding and in the heat of the firefight I failed to notice that when I zoomed back to wide 35 I was getting lenshood corners to the frame. The bride thought it was art and the groom thought it was science, and I thought I was dead. In time they forgave me and I released the hostages. Moral to the story is go wide and look at the corners and bend the rubber hood in to see exactly when it becomes objectionable. Uncle Dick ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 14:11:27 +0200 From: Per =?ISO-8859-1?B?1g==?=fverbeck To: Subject: Re: Vignetting Message-ID: Well, while it is quite easy to get vignetting with a wide angle like the 5= 0 through multiple filters, it is almost impossible with the 250, unless one of the filters is simply too small (i. e. smaller diameter than that of the front lens). Did you use some kind of "step down" ring anywhere? Are thos= e corners completely dark and rather abrupt, like when shooting through a porthole, or are they just a gradual loss of density (in a neg)? Per Ofverbeck > Fr=E5n: "Robin Dubner" > Svara till: hasselblad@kelvin.net > Datum: Fri, 11 May 2001 21:04:17 -0700 > Till: "hasselblad users group" > =C4mne: Vignetting >=20 > I put a graduated neutral density filter over my polarizer and I all four > corners are dark. I tried this on all my lenses: 50mm, 80mm, and 250mm. > Why? >=20 > Robin A. Dubner > Attorney At Law > 4200 Park Boulevard - #233 > Oakland, California 94602 > USA > T: 510-451-0800 F: 510-482-5610 > RADLawyer@earthlink.net >=20 > "Once in a while you get shown the light > In the strangest of places if you look at it right." (Hunter/Garcia) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 12:15:51 +0000 From: b.ferster@att.net To: "Stein" , hasselblad@kelvin.net Subject: Re: Uncle Dick's Full Moon Number Two Message-ID: <20010512121551.QLLA8726.mtiwmhc25.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> You were "pasty pale, coughing, and woozy"? Just what do you do in that dark room? The commercials on US TV show Aussies beering in public! The consensus here is to turn the boxes over to your local nursery school. Arts and crafts, and such. Better than hiding in a dark room getting dizzy. .............B.F............... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 14:45:51 +0200 From: "Q.G. de Bakker" To: Subject: Re: Extension Tubes (need your advice and help) Message-ID: <001401c0dae1$7bd49500$9ad8f1c3@qnu350> ay wrote: > I have a 503CW and a 80mm lens. As I can't afford to get the 120 > Makro-Planar and would like to take pictures of small subjects and still > life, I believe getting extension tube/s will be a good alternative. > However, I would like to seek your advice and some clarification about > extension tubes. > > 1. My 80mm can focus from 0.9m to infinity. When I use an extension > tube, will the focus range become very narrow (i.e. only from certain > distance to certain distance even you turn the focus ring all the way > from 0.9m to infinity mark)? I believe the infinity focus ability will > be lost. Moreover, is the longer the extension tube, the narrower the > focus range becomes? The focussing range will indeed decrease, and get narrower with longer tubes. 8 mm tube: 0.98 - 0.53 m 16 mm tube: 0.58 - 0.43 m 32 mm tube: 0.39 - 0.35 m 56 mm tube: 0.33 - 0.32 m > 2. If the focus range really becomes very narrow, will the 120 > Makro-Planar make the focus range wider due to its design for marco > photography? Yes. The 120 mm has more built-in extension, thus a larger focussing range to begin with (25% of its focal length vs 13% in the 80 mm lens). It will keep this "advantage". At about the same magnifications using the 80 mm plus 56 mm tube will give, the 120 mm will have a focussing range of 0.52 - 0.49 m. So 3 cm instead of 1 cm. Not a lot either way. ;-) > 3. There are four extension tube available (8, 16, 32, 56mm). If I can > afford to get three, which three should I get? I think the 16 and 32mm > are must but I don't know if I really have to get one more. Any > suggestion and experience? The 8 mm is a very good tube to use with the 80 mm lens. It supplements the approx. 10 mm built-in extension perfectly. The tube i use least is the longest. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 14:57:06 +0200 From: Per =?ISO-8859-1?B?1g==?=fverbeck To: Subject: Re: Extension Tubes (need your advice and help) Message-ID: The maths of extension tubes is quite simple if you use image magnification as a variable instead of focussing distance. And, after all, image magnification is what you are after in the first place. For a lens without floating elements, you focus closer than infinity by adding extension between lens and film: you start with the focussing mount itself, and supply extra tubes once you "run out of thread" in the mount. All the time, your image magnification is simply the added extension (in mm:s) divided by the focal length of the lens (also in mm:s). So if you extend an 80 mm lens by 20 mm, you will get a magnification of 20/80 =3D 0.25 (or, if you prefer, scale 1:4). From this simple formula, it follows that if you want an uninterrupted rang= e of magnifications with one lens, you need an uninterrupted range of extensions! The first thing to determine is the possible extension of the lens mount itself, and for the central shuttered Planar 80=B4s that is 9 mm. For the sake of this argument, suppose that it were 8 mm instead; that extr= a mm just gives some overlap, which is rather convenient. This is the reason why the tubes start with 8 mm : once you reach 8 mm with the lens itself, you can add the 8 mm tube, return the lens to the infinity setting, and hav= e exactly the same magnification as before. Now you start to turn the focus mount again until you added 8mm to your tube: then you have 16 mm extension= ! To go on from there, remove the 8, add the 16 mm tube, set the lens at infinity, and voila! you are still at 16 mm extension, and can go on with the focussing mount up to 16 + 8 =3D 24 mm. Now you add the 8 mm tube to you= r 16 setup, and return the lens to infinity, and you are still at 24 mm, with another 8 mm to go (and after that, you need the 32 mm tube...). This is the reason for the "factor 2" series of tubes: 8, 16, 32, (should have been 64, but for reasons known only to Hasselblad, they "cheat", and supply the 56 instead. Well, they probably want to sell a few bellows as well). Now, to sum up: to get a continuous range, you HAVE TO start with a tube that is no longer than your focusing mount supplies, and then add more tube= s without skipping any, until you=B4re satisfied. I also have an 80C, and so I have the 8, 16, and 32 tubes, but seldom need the 32 one. Good luck! Per Ofverbeck > Fr=E5n: ay > Svara till: hasselblad@kelvin.net > Datum: Sat, 12 May 2001 18:00:30 +0800 > Till: Hasselblad Digest > =C4mne: Extension Tubes (need your advice and help) >=20 > Hi, >=20 > I have a 503CW and a 80mm lens. As I can't afford to get the 120 > Makro-Planar and would like to take pictures of small subjects and still > life, I believe getting extension tube/s will be a good alternative. > However, I would like to seek your advice and some clarification about > extension tubes. >=20 > 1. My 80mm can focus from 0.9m to infinity. When I use an extension > tube, will the focus range become very narrow (i.e. only from certain > distance to certain distance even you turn the focus ring all the way > from 0.9m to infinity mark)? I believe the infinity focus ability will > be lost. Moreover, is the longer the extension tube, the narrower the > focus range becomes? >=20 > 2. If the focus range really becomes very narrow, will the 120 > Makro-Planar make the focus range wider due to its design for marco > photography? >=20 > 3. There are four extension tube available (8, 16, 32, 56mm). If I can > afford to get three, which three should I get? I think the 16 and 32mm > are must but I don't know if I really have to get one more. Any > suggestion and experience? >=20 > Thank you very much for your help. >=20 > Albert >=20 >=20 >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > The Hasselblad Users Group Listserv is a public service of Absolute Inter= net, > Inc., which is not responsible for its content. This mailing list is in = no > way affiliated with Victor Hasselblad AB, it's subsidiaries, or affiliate= s. >=20 > Please turn off HTML mail features prior to posting to this list. Use t= ext > mode only. >=20 > To change your subscription status, go to: > http://mail.kelvin.net/guest/RemoteListSummary/Hasselblad > Digest archives are stored at http://www.kelvin.net/hasselblad/hassy.htm > Searchable archives can be found at http://www.listquest.com/arts/index.h= tml ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 15:07:33 +0200 From: "Q.G. de Bakker" To: Subject: Re: Extension Tubes (need your advice and help) Message-ID: <003f01c0dae4$83328a20$9ad8f1c3@qnu350> Per Öfverbeck wrote: > [...] This is the reason > why the tubes start with 8 mm : once you reach 8 mm with the lens itself, > you can add the 8 mm tube, return the lens to the infinity setting, and have > exactly the same magnification as before. Now you start to turn the focus > mount again until you added 8mm to your tube: then you have 16 mm extension! > To go on from there, remove the 8, add the 16 mm tube, set the lens at > infinity, and voila! you are still at 16 mm extension, and can go on with > the focussing mount up to 16 + 8 = 24 mm. Now you add the 8 mm tube to your > 16 setup, and return the lens to infinity, and you are still at 24 mm, with > another 8 mm to go (and after that, you need the 32 mm tube...). This is > the reason for the "factor 2" series of tubes: 8, 16, 32, (should have been > 64, but for reasons known only to Hasselblad, they "cheat", and supply the > 56 instead. Well, they probably want to sell a few bellows as well). Almost. Assuming the shortest built-in extension in Zeiss/Hasselblad lenses is about 8 mm, the logic is that this 8 mm extension remains constant. So we musn't double the extension (no "factor 2" or cheat involved), but build 8 mm steps. no tube: 0 - 8 mm extension. 8 mm tube : 8 - 16 mm 16 mm tube: 16 - 24 mm 8 mm + 14 mm tubes: 24 - 32 mm 32 mm tube: 32 - 40 mm 32 mm + 8 mm tubes: 40 - 48 mm 32 mm + 16 mm tubes: 48 - 56 (!!!) mm 56 mm tube: 56 - 64 mm And the bellows will take over from here. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 09:38:44 EDT From: COHIBA7@aol.com To: stein@bekkers.com.au, hasselblad@kelvin.net Subject: Re: Uncle Dick's Full Moon Number Two Message-ID: <48.15a49357.282e96e4@aol.com> --part1_48.15a49357.282e96e4_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Uncle Dick: I just love your contests and they do indeed provide a break in the tedium. After reading at least six times per year which extension tube(s) give(s) 1:1 reproduction, admittedly, a valuable bit of information, well, some mirth from Perth is welcomed! However, as you know, there are those on this list who are never lighthearted and you will inevitably receive postings crying "enough already with this stupid contest, this is a serious list...does anyone have an opinion relative to the ergonomics of the Leica swing out polarizer when compared to those of the outboard charger that charges up the batteries for the EL series?" Thus, my idea for what to do with your paper. When you and the contest participants are criticized publicly, secure the complainants' addresses and use the paper to send them your usual witty, sharp retort. This will serve a twofold purpose, to wit: Uncle Dick can lash back and keep it offline, thereby preserving the integrity of the list and making happy, once again, your detractors! Has Skylab landed yet and was there a Hasselblad on board? RL Demsey --part1_48.15a49357.282e96e4_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Uncle Dick:

I just love your contests and they do indeed provide a break in the tedium.  
After reading at least six times per year which extension tube(s) give(s) 1:1
reproduction, admittedly, a valuable bit of information, well, some mirth
from Perth is welcomed!

However, as you know, there are those on this list who are never lighthearted
and you will inevitably receive postings crying "enough already with this
stupid contest, this is a serious list...does anyone have an opinion relative
to the ergonomics of the Leica swing out polarizer when compared to those of
the outboard charger that charges up the batteries for the EL series?"  

Thus, my idea for what to do with your paper.  When you and the contest
participants are criticized publicly, secure the complainants' addresses and
use the paper to send them your usual witty, sharp retort.  This will serve a
twofold purpose, to wit: Uncle Dick can lash back and keep it offline,
thereby preserving the integrity of the list and making happy, once again,
your detractors!

Has Skylab landed yet and was there a Hasselblad on board?

RL Demsey


--part1_48.15a49357.282e96e4_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 10:23:11 EDT From: COHIBA7@aol.com To: hasselblad@kelvin.net Subject: Re: Uncle Dick's Full Moon Number Two Message-ID: <51.b6f2afb.282ea14f@aol.com> --part1_51.b6f2afb.282ea14f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit PS: If you are out of paper and just have piles of boxes, then just write on the boxes. You ought to get 4 "pages" per box! --part1_51.b6f2afb.282ea14f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit PS:

If you are out of paper and just have piles of boxes, then just write on the
boxes.  You ought to get 4 "pages" per box! --part1_51.b6f2afb.282ea14f_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 16:47:56 +0200 From: Per =?ISO-8859-1?B?1g==?=fverbeck To: Subject: Re: Extension Tubes (need your advice and help) Message-ID: Sure, 32 + 16 =3D 48, and 48 + 8 =3D 56, but if you have the complete set (8, 16, 32), you=B4ve still one more trick up your sleeve before acquiring anything more: 32 + 16 + 8 =3D 56, and 56 + 8 =3D 64. So with the 80 C(F) and the three first tubes, you have the complete range from 0 mm up to 64 mm, and the next tube should really start there. It is all simple binary mathematics: you need 8 mm multiplied by the consecutive powers of 2, and 56 =3D 7*8. 7 is not a power of 2. The old bellows did start at 64 mm (63.5 really), and I suppose the newer, automatic one does the same. 56 is simply out of line with the rest of the system! My guess is that it is primarily intended for getting a bit closer with, say, the 50= 0 mm, not as part of a close-up set for shorter lenses. Per Ofverbeck > Fr=E5n: "Q.G. de Bakker" > Svara till: "Q.G. de Bakker" > Datum: Sat, 12 May 2001 15:07:33 +0200 > Till: > =C4mne: Re: Extension Tubes (need your advice and help) >=20 > Per =D6fverbeck wrote: >=20 >> [...] This is the reason >> why the tubes start with 8 mm : once you reach 8 mm with the lens itself= , >> you can add the 8 mm tube, return the lens to the infinity setting, and > have >> exactly the same magnification as before. Now you start to turn the foc= us >> mount again until you added 8mm to your tube: then you have 16 mm > extension! >> To go on from there, remove the 8, add the 16 mm tube, set the lens at >> infinity, and voila! you are still at 16 mm extension, and can go on wit= h >> the focussing mount up to 16 + 8 =3D 24 mm. Now you add the 8 mm tube to > your >> 16 setup, and return the lens to infinity, and you are still at 24 mm, > with >> another 8 mm to go (and after that, you need the 32 mm tube...). This i= s >> the reason for the "factor 2" series of tubes: 8, 16, 32, (should have > been >> 64, but for reasons known only to Hasselblad, they "cheat", and supply t= he >> 56 instead. Well, they probably want to sell a few bellows as well). >=20 > Almost. Assuming the shortest built-in extension in Zeiss/Hasselblad lens= es > is about 8 mm, the logic is that this 8 mm extension remains constant. So= we > musn't double the extension (no "factor 2" or cheat involved), but build = 8 > mm steps. >=20 > no tube: 0 - 8 mm extension. > 8 mm tube : 8 - 16 mm > 16 mm tube: 16 - 24 mm > 8 mm + 14 mm tubes: 24 - 32 mm > 32 mm tube: 32 - 40 mm > 32 mm + 8 mm tubes: 40 - 48 mm > 32 mm + 16 mm tubes: 48 - 56 (!!!) mm > 56 mm tube: 56 - 64 mm > And the bellows will take over from here. >=20 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 10:38:08 -0700 From: David B Norris To: hasselblad@kelvin.net Subject: Re: Uncle Dick's Full Moon Number Two Message-ID: <009101c0db0a$4f833a50$a0b674cc@testbed1> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_008E_01C0DACF.A269EBF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Count again. A box has six "pages" unless you seperate the top from the = bottom and then you have ten "pages". ;-) ----- Original Message -----=20 From: COHIBA7@aol.com=20 PS:=20 If you are out of paper and just have piles of boxes, then just write = on the=20 boxes. You ought to get 4 "pages" per box!=20 ------=_NextPart_000_008E_01C0DACF.A269EBF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Count again. A box has six "pages" = unless you=20 seperate the top from the bottom and then you have ten "pages". = ;-)
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 COHIBA7@aol.com=20

PS:

If you are out of paper and just have piles of = boxes, then=20 just write on the
boxes.  You ought to get 4 "pages" per = box!=20 ------=_NextPart_000_008E_01C0DACF.A269EBF0-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 09:16:06 -0700 From: "olenberger" To: Subject: Re: Extension Tubes (need your advice and help) Message-ID: <008b01c0dafe$db0ec320$63af1b3f@default> If you are near a professional camera store that rents Hasselblad equipment, I would recommend renting tubes first so you can experience the magnification and depth of field for each. If not, I would recommend buying only one first, and using it for a while. The 16mm extension will fill the frame with an object about 9 inches across. The 32mm extension will fill the frame with an object about 4.5 to 5 inches across. I have rented a 56mm (used with the 80mm lens) but found the narrow focussing range and tiny FOV at this magnification to be very limiting in its application. You can always use lower magnification, crop the image, and enlarge when you print. -Fritz ----- Original Message ----- From: "ay" To: "Hasselblad Digest" Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2001 3:00 AM Subject: Extension Tubes (need your advice and help) > Hi, > > I have a 503CW and a 80mm lens. As I can't afford to get the 120 > Makro-Planar and would like to take pictures of small subjects and still > life, I believe getting extension tube/s will be a good alternative. > However, I would like to seek your advice and some clarification about > extension tubes. > > 1. My 80mm can focus from 0.9m to infinity. When I use an extension > tube, will the focus range become very narrow (i.e. only from certain > distance to certain distance even you turn the focus ring all the way > from 0.9m to infinity mark)? I believe the infinity focus ability will > be lost. Moreover, is the longer the extension tube, the narrower the > focus range becomes? > > 2. If the focus range really becomes very narrow, will the 120 > Makro-Planar make the focus range wider due to its design for marco > photography? > > 3. There are four extension tube available (8, 16, 32, 56mm). If I can > afford to get three, which three should I get? I think the 16 and 32mm > are must but I don't know if I really have to get one more. Any > suggestion and experience? > > Thank you very much for your help. > > Albert > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > The Hasselblad Users Group Listserv is a public service of Absolute Internet, Inc., which is not responsible for its content. This mailing list is in no way affiliated with Victor Hasselblad AB, it's subsidiaries, or affiliates. > > Please turn off HTML mail features prior to posting to this list. Use text mode only. > > To change your subscription status, go to: http://mail.kelvin.net/guest/RemoteListSummary/Hasselblad > Digest archives are stored at http://www.kelvin.net/hasselblad/hassy.htm > Searchable archives can be found at http://www.listquest.com/arts/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 12:28:45 EDT From: Texford1@aol.com To: hasselblad@kelvin.net Subject: Re: Extension Tubes (need your advice and help) Message-ID: <7d.14ce145d.282ebebd@aol.com> Was there a 55mm externsion tube, or is it my imagination, I thought I saw one soem time ago. Other than the 120mm, which lens is most suitable for use with the extension tubes in still photography, for obtaining the best DOF possible. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 10:03:14 -0700 From: "olenberger" To: Subject: Re: Extension Tubes (need your advice and help) Message-ID: <001c01c0db05$706bb440$fdaf1b3f@default> Hasselblad introduced a 55mm tube in 1957, but it was discontinued in 1982. (You may be interested in obtaining a copy of Richard Nordin's "Hasselblad System Compendium" which has this kind of information, and is a great book for browsing). DOF is dependent on only magnification and aperture. Thus, for a given magnification, the best lenses for use with the extension tubes for obtaining maximum DOF are those with the smallest aperture. The 80 can be stopped down to f/22, but others can be stopped down to f/32. The CF 135, which can be used only with bellows, can be stopped down to f/45. The 250 can also be stopped down to f/45, but you wan't get much magnification with it using tubes. -Fritz ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2001 9:28 AM Subject: Re: Extension Tubes (need your advice and help) > Was there a 55mm externsion tube, or is it my imagination, I thought I saw > one soem time ago. > Other than the 120mm, which lens is most suitable for use with the extension > tubes in still photography, for obtaining the best DOF possible. > > Ben > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > The Hasselblad Users Group Listserv is a public service of Absolute Internet, Inc., which is not responsible for its content. This mailing list is in no way affiliated with Victor Hasselblad AB, it's subsidiaries, or affiliates. > > Please turn off HTML mail features prior to posting to this list. Use text mode only. > > To change your subscription status, go to: http://mail.kelvin.net/guest/RemoteListSummary/Hasselblad > Digest archives are stored at http://www.kelvin.net/hasselblad/hassy.htm > Searchable archives can be found at http://www.listquest.com/arts/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 11:27:53 -0700 From: Mark Rabiner Cc: hasselblad@kelvin.net Subject: Re: Uncle Dick's Full Moon Number Two Message-ID: <3AFD80A8.A191160@rabiner.cncoffice.com> Stein wrote: > > Dear Friends, > > It's that time again. > > As I stumbled out of the darkroom this afternoon - pasty pale, > coughing, and woozy ( I love photography.) I saw the pile of old paper boxes > has almost reached critical mass. There they sit, yellow, white, and orange, > perfect condition, well made, too good the throw out, and empty. > > I use 8 x 10 paper - the boxes are the 100 size. A few 125 boxes from > Agfa as they have had a promotion around here recently. A few mounting > tissue boxes. > > What I need is a good idea about what can be done with them. I favour > recycling in photography - hence my use of old out of date RC paper for > toilet tissue in the guest bathroom - and I just can't bring myself to throw > them out. > Put your 8x10 prints in them! They fit perfectly! They make for a very un intimidating portfolio box. You can pretend it's not your portfolio just causual grouping of prints. I just read how Eugene Smith had 11x14 Kodak boxes fill with prints all over his place! I like boxes better than a book for many reasons. As i print fiber i like the person to feel the prints. I don't like the plastic pages. And makes for last minute editing. You don't show the in-laws your nudes so much! :) Mark Rabiner Portland, Oregon USA http://www.rabiner.cncoffice.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 20:40:03 +0200 From: Per =?ISO-8859-1?B?1g==?=fverbeck To: Subject: Re: Extension Tubes (need your advice and help) Message-ID: Yes, the first two tubes for the 500C system were 21 and 55 mm, later a 10 mm one was added. The somewhat odd numbers are because Hasselblad expected a user to start with Proxar lenses, and add tubes only when running out of Proxars. The very oldest Hasselblads, the 1600F and 1000F, had a set of tubes with the "factor 2"-system. since there was no automatic diaphragm, and no shutter in the F lenses, these were simple tubes with no linkage in them. A very nice lens to use with an 8 mm tube is the 50 CF FLE. You leave the FLE ring at its closest setting and adjust the magnification with the regular focussing ring, and you can get stunning pictures of close-up flowers with a lot of recognizable background. great for showing the habitat and the flower in the same image! Per Ofverbeck > Fr=E5n: Texford1@aol.com > Svara till: hasselblad@kelvin.net > Datum: Sat, 12 May 2001 12:28:45 EDT > Till: hasselblad@kelvin.net > =C4mne: Re: Extension Tubes (need your advice and help) >=20 > Was there a 55mm externsion tube, or is it my imagination, I thought I sa= w > one soem time ago. > Other than the 120mm, which lens is most suitable for use with the extens= ion > tubes in still photography, for obtaining the best DOF possible. >=20 > Ben > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > The Hasselblad Users Group Listserv is a public service of Absolute Inter= net, > Inc., which is not responsible for its content. This mailing list is in = no > way affiliated with Victor Hasselblad AB, it's subsidiaries, or affiliate= s. >=20 > Please turn off HTML mail features prior to posting to this list. Use t= ext > mode only. >=20 > To change your subscription status, go to: > http://mail.kelvin.net/guest/RemoteListSummary/Hasselblad > Digest archives are stored at http://www.kelvin.net/hasselblad/hassy.htm > Searchable archives can be found at http://www.listquest.com/arts/index.h= tml ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 20:46:01 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?F=E9lix_L=F3pez_de_Maturana?= To: Subject: RE:RE: 903SWC shutter release button Message-ID: > The SWC release is nowhere near as smooth as the M6. My SWC/M release > (same body as the 903, as far as I know) is somewhat stiff and "snaps" a > bit, as you noted. It's not much of a problem for me, because I usually > use it on a tripod with a cable release. I've looked at the > releases on a > couple of earlier models with Compur shutters, and they're > similarly stiff. I do not find my SWC release is stiff but anyway it is not as smooth as a M6. It could be a good idea to visit a Hasselblad agent. Kind regards Félix ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 13:27:59 -0600 From: Dick Chandler To: hasselblad@kelvin.net Subject: RE:RE: 903SWC shutter release button Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010512132557.00aa1c90@mail.hainc.com> Thanks. I may give that a try at some point, although, as I said, it's not too much= =20 of a problem. It does seem a little rough, especially given the overall=20 quality of Hasselblad stuff. Austin's reply was encouraging, as it suggests that some break-in might be= =20 needed. Mine hasn't had a lot of use, so I need to burn more film. Dick At 08:46 PM 5/12/2001 +0200, you wrote: > > The SWC release is nowhere near as smooth as the M6. My SWC/M release > > (same body as the 903, as far as I know) is somewhat stiff and "snaps" a > > bit, as you noted. It's not much of a problem for me, because I usually > > use it on a tripod with a cable release. I've looked at the > > releases on a > > couple of earlier models with Compur shutters, and they're > > similarly stiff. > >I do not find my SWC release is stiff but anyway it is not as smooth as a >M6. It could be a good idea to visit a Hasselblad agent. > >Kind regards > >F=E9lix ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 00:49:52 +0200 From: "Q.G. de Bakker" To: Subject: Re: Extension Tubes (need your advice and help) Message-ID: <000801c0db35$dcc017a0$80def1c3@qnu350> Per Öfverbeck wrote: > Sure, 32 + 16 = 48, and 48 + 8 = 56, but if you have the complete set (8, > 16, 32), you´ve still one more trick up your sleeve before acquiring > anything more: 32 + 16 + 8 = 56, and 56 + 8 = 64. > > So with the 80 C(F) and the three first tubes, you have the complete range > from 0 mm up to 64 mm, and the next tube should really start there. It is > all simple binary mathematics: you need 8 mm multiplied by the consecutive > powers of 2, and 56 = 7*8. 7 is not a power of 2. The old bellows did > start at 64 mm (63.5 really), and I suppose the newer, automatic one does > the same. 56 is simply out of line with the rest of the system! My guess > is that it is primarily intended for getting a bit closer with, say, the 500 > mm, not as part of a close-up set for shorter lenses. One other consideration is to prevent stacking too many tubes. Every tube added adds another mechanical interface, play and all, and will result in a less reliable link, more prone to the dreaded "Hasselblad jam". But you're right, you can get upto 64 mm extension using the three shorter tubes. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 16:50:15 -0700 From: Jim Brick To: "Q.G. de Bakker" , Subject: Re: Extension Tubes (need your advice and help) Message-ID: <200105122353.QAA06927@spoon.alink.net> Hasselblad does not recommend using more than two tubes. Three tubes + lens =3D too many mechanical connections. But, of course, you can try anything. Jim >Per =D6fverbeck wrote: > >> Sure, 32 + 16 =3D 48, and 48 + 8 =3D 56, but if you have the complete set= (8, >> 16, 32), you=B4ve still one more trick up your sleeve before acquiring >> anything more: 32 + 16 + 8 =3D 56, and 56 + 8 =3D 64. >> >> So with the 80 C(F) and the three first tubes, you have the complete= range >> from 0 mm up to 64 mm, and the next tube should really start there. It= is >> all simple binary mathematics: you need 8 mm multiplied by the= consecutive >> powers of 2, and 56 =3D 7*8. 7 is not a power of 2. The old bellows did >> start at 64 mm (63.5 really), and I suppose the newer, automatic one does >> the same. 56 is simply out of line with the rest of the system! My= guess >> is that it is primarily intended for getting a bit closer with, say, the >500 >> mm, not as part of a close-up set for shorter lenses. > At 12:49 AM 5/13/01 +0200, Q.G. de Bakker wrote: >One other consideration is to prevent stacking too many tubes. Every tube >added adds another mechanical interface, play and all, and will result in a >less reliable link, more prone to the dreaded "Hasselblad jam". >But you're right, you can get upto 64 mm extension using the three shorter >tubes. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 09:35:17 +0800 From: "Stein" To: Subject: First Good Idea Message-ID: <000001c0db4f$e65e1a40$65b237cb@oemcomputer> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0069_01C0DB90.053AFF60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Friends, I have just read Mark Rabiner's response to the second Full Moon = contest and it has caused a train of thought to pull out of the mental = station. All aboard, folks. The paper boxes that are currently cluttering up the darkroom and = storeroom are all stout cardboard folded and glued with the name of the = manufacturer overprinted on a paper wrapper. In the nature of their use, = they are a tight fit between top and bottom. In some cases the = individual information about that box of papaer ie colour or B/W, grade, = surface, etc is printed on a sticker that wraps around one end. Basic = stuff - no surprises. When the box is empty it would indeed make a good storage box for = some of the paper that was inside it originally inasmuch as it is the = right size - this is assuming you want the prints to sit unmounted or to = sit in a very narrow mount. Mark pointed this out. I am going to have to = defer to greater experts than myself to say whether paper that has = undergone the chemical washings and transformation of processing will be = as happy to sit in that confined cardboard box as it was in the = unexposed state. My definition of archival processing is the picture is = still visible when the client's cheque is deposited in my account.... But the paper box always carries the bright colour and advertising = logo of the manufacturer so use as a presentation or portfolio box is = somewhat problematical. Your best wedding shown to the next prospective = bridal couple in the bright purple Agdak box with the paper grade label = half torn off sort of defeats the proposal. What a good idea if the manufacturers - Agdak, Koji, Fufa, Ilness, = etc were to package their paper in a PLAIN WHITE BOX - or a plain red, = yellow, or green box- and put ALL of the advertising logo on a sticker = on the side in the normal manner. And then possibly shrink-wrap the box = with a further plastic wrapper carrying as much logo and advertising as = they wish. Then we poor grubs who buy it would peel off the stickers and = use the boxes much as Mark has suggested. We might even be pursuaded to pay just a little extra for the new = packaging - considering we are buying a useful container rather than = more trash for the compactor. ARE YOU LISTENING IN LEVERKUSEN AND ROCHESTER? Uncle Dick ------=_NextPart_000_0069_01C0DB90.053AFF60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Friends,
 
    I have just read = Mark Rabiner's=20 response to the second Full Moon contest and it has caused a train of = thought to=20 pull out of the mental station. All aboard, folks.
 
    The paper boxes that = are=20 currently cluttering up the darkroom and storeroom are all stout=20 cardboard folded and glued with the name of the manufacturer = overprinted on=20 a paper wrapper. In the nature of their use, they are a tight fit = between top=20 and bottom. In some cases the individual information about that box of = papaer ie=20 colour or B/W, grade, surface, etc is printed on a sticker that wraps = around one=20 end. Basic stuff - no surprises.
 
    When the box is = empty it would=20 indeed make a good storage box for some of the paper that was inside it=20 originally inasmuch as it is the right size - this is assuming you want = the=20 prints to sit unmounted or to sit in a very narrow mount. Mark pointed = this out.=20 I am going to have to defer to greater experts than myself to say = whether paper=20 that has undergone the chemical washings and transformation of = processing will=20 be as happy to sit in that confined cardboard box as it was in the=20 unexposed state. My definition of archival processing is the picture is = still=20 visible when the client's cheque is deposited in my = account....
 
    But the paper box = always carries=20 the bright colour and advertising logo of the manufacturer so use as a=20 presentation or portfolio box is somewhat problematical. Your best = wedding shown=20 to the next prospective bridal couple in the bright purple Agdak = box with=20 the paper grade label half torn off sort of defeats the = proposal.
 
    What a good idea if = the=20 manufacturers - Agdak, Koji, Fufa, Ilness, etc were to package their = paper in a=20 PLAIN WHITE BOX - or a plain red, yellow, or green box- and put ALL of = the=20 advertising logo on a sticker on = the side in=20 the normal manner. And then possibly shrink-wrap the box with a further = plastic=20 wrapper carrying as much logo and advertising as they wish. Then we poor grubs who buy it would peel off the = stickers and=20 use the boxes much as Mark has suggested.
 
    We might even be = pursuaded to=20 pay just a little extra for the new packaging  - considering we are = buying=20 a useful container rather than more trash for the = compactor.
 
    ARE YOU LISTENING IN = LEVERKUSEN=20 AND ROCHESTER?
 
    Uncle=20 Dick
------=_NextPart_000_0069_01C0DB90.053AFF60-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 09:53:01 +0800 From: "Stein" To: Subject: Second Good Idea Message-ID: <000101c0db4f$e77b7120$65b237cb@oemcomputer> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0071_01C0DB92.7F2C6D20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Friends, And this one has a definite Hasselblad connection. Square pictures. We all make 'em. 12 per roll of 120, 70 per roll of 70mm., etc. A lot of us then make 'em rectangular. 8 x 10, 6 x 4, 12 x 16, = cabinet, half plate, promenade, etc. etc. In some cases because the = client wants that size, in some cases because we want that size, and in = some cases because the paper comes in that size. And in some cases = because we have a Saunders one-size easel and that is the only size we = can make. ( Not strictly true, folks, some of us put black card inserts = inside the easel and end up with rather elegant bordered prints. The = Saunders also has the advantage that it cannot be broken in fits of = uncontrollable rage....) When we want to do the Swedish Square Dance we have to trim off one = edge of the paper, slip it into the adjustable easel, print it up, take = it out, readjust the easel, drop the print on the floor, do it again, = stop for coffee, etc. This explains a lot of the language that comes out = of the darkroom. Is there any manufacturer who makes a sturdy one-size metal or = plastic easel that produces 8 x 8, 5 x 5, or 10 x 10? Are there any = CUSTOM equipment workshops that could do this - possibly incorporating = masks for fixed borders? Also incorporating tabs that could be = gaffer-taped to the baseboard for repeated print runs? Uncle Dick PS: Small addendum. I asked for the list's ideas about using 8 x 10 = paper boxes constructively. Howzabout the 4 x 5 film boxes that have 2 = inner boxes? PPS: For the chap who asked what I do in the darkroom that leaves me = woozy. It's the mercury and bromine fumes. ------=_NextPart_000_0071_01C0DB92.7F2C6D20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Friends,
 
    And this one has a = definite=20 Hasselblad connection. Square pictures.
 
    We all make 'em. 12 = per roll of=20 120, 70 per roll of 70mm., etc.
 
    A lot of us then = make 'em=20 rectangular. 8 x 10, 6 x 4, 12 x 16, cabinet, half plate, promenade, = etc. etc.=20 In some cases because the client wants that size, in some cases because = we want=20 that size, and in some cases because the paper comes in that size. And = in some=20 cases because we have a Saunders one-size easel and that is the only = size we can=20 make. ( Not strictly true, folks, some of us put black card inserts = inside the=20 easel and end up with rather elegant bordered prints. The Saunders also = has the=20 advantage that it cannot be broken in fits of uncontrollable=20 rage....)
 
    When we want to do = the Swedish=20 Square Dance we have to trim off one edge of the paper, slip it into the = adjustable easel, print it up, take it out, readjust the easel, drop the = print=20 on the floor, do it again, stop for coffee, etc. This explains a = lot of the=20 language that comes out of the darkroom.
 
    Is there any = manufacturer who=20 makes a sturdy one-size metal or plastic easel that produces 8 x 8, 5 x = 5, or 10=20 x 10? Are there any CUSTOM equipment = workshops=20 that could do this - possibly incorporating masks for fixed borders? = Also=20 incorporating tabs that could be gaffer-taped to the baseboard for = repeated=20 print runs?
 
    Uncle = Dick
 
PS: Small addendum. I asked for the = list's ideas=20 about using 8 x 10 paper boxes constructively. Howzabout the 4 x 5 film = boxes=20 that have 2 inner boxes?
 
PPS: For the chap who asked what I = do in the=20 darkroom that leaves me woozy. It's the mercury and bromine=20 fumes.
------=_NextPart_000_0071_01C0DB92.7F2C6D20-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 04:53:22 -0000 From: "Martin Taureg" To: "Stein" , hasselblad@kelvin.net Subject: Re: Uncle Dick's Full Moon Number Two Message-ID: <3AFE1342.25792.FB9FA9@localhost> Well, Uncle Dick, that's an easy one: The best idea, at least in the short term, is to put labels on them and use the boxes to sort and store your prints (or any other documents, such as recipes for Farmer's bleach, etc.). It is also the worst idea, for - if you forget to take the prints out at time to store them into proper archival quality boxes, they will get stained, fade away, or maybe even completely disappear, since the cardboard these boxes are made of is full of nasty residues, especially in these times of cost-cutting industry. And to top this with the most WEIRD idea, why don't you use the boxes to store the spools of the film that you have developed. I hope you won't be so wasteful to throw them away! After all, with cost cutting, reduction of the classic silver-halide product line, closing down on 70mm film, and so on -- who is going to guarantee you that five years from now you will still be able to buy type 120, let alone type 220 film??? You may very well spend a whole week in your darkroom, custom- cutting and -winding your own roll film from a huge roll of leftover 12" aerial film, or whatever you'll be able to lay your hand unto. And ten years from now you will be preparing your own emulsion, pour it onto your homemade film strip, cut and wind ... Your complexion may even suffer more from that exercise. Best, Martin On 12 May 2001, at 19:43, Stein wrote: > Dear Friends, > > It's that time again. > > As I stumbled out of the darkroom this afternoon - pasty pale, > coughing, and woozy ( I love photography.) I saw the pile of old paper boxes > has almost reached critical mass. There they sit, yellow, white, and orange, > perfect condition, well made, too good the throw out, and empty. > > I use 8 x 10 paper - the boxes are the 100 size. A few 125 boxes from > Agfa as they have had a promotion around here recently. A few mounting > tissue boxes. > > What I need is a good idea about what can be done with them. I favour > recycling in photography - hence my use of old out of date RC paper for > toilet tissue in the guest bathroom - and I just can't bring myself to throw > them out. > > The Second Full Moon Contest is simple. There are two prizes that will > be posted out from Perth. One goes for the BEST idea for using up the paper > boxes and one goes for the WORST* idea. Just post your ideas on the HB list > before the 27th of May and I'll announce the winners at the end of the > month. -- Martin Taureg B. P. 6063, Dakar, SENEGAL (West Africa) Fax: (++221) 822 88 43 (Please call before sending a fax) Fax by e-mail: (++39 02) 700 429 115 / (++49 89) 244 326 028 E-Mail: mtaureg@ns.arc.sn / mtaureg@voila.fr / mtaureg@eudoramail.com Please contact me before sending file attachments (filtering). ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 04:53:22 -0000 From: "Martin Taureg" To: "Stein" Cc: hasselblad@kelvin.net Subject: Re: Uncle Dick's Full Moon Number Two Message-ID: <3AFE1342.18107.FBA03D@localhost> On 12 May 2001, at 19:43, Stein wrote: > As I stumbled out of the darkroom this afternoon - pasty pale, > coughing, and woozy ( I love photography.) I saw the pile of old paper boxes > has almost reached critical mass. There they sit, yellow, white, and orange, > perfect condition, well made, too good the throw out, and empty. Am I right in assuming that you have used the _waste level finder_ to determine critical mass??? Martin - relieved, finally I know what this thing is meant to be used for ;-))) -- Martin Taureg B. P. 6063, Dakar, SENEGAL (West Africa) Fax: (++221) 822 88 43 (Please call before sending a fax) Fax by e-mail: (++39 02) 700 429 115 / (++49 89) 244 326 028 E-Mail: mtaureg@ns.arc.sn / mtaureg@voila.fr / mtaureg@eudoramail.com Please contact me before sending file attachments (filtering). ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 08:05:39 +0200 From: Lars =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4gglund?= To: Stein Cc: hasselblad@kelvin.net Subject: Re: Uncle Dick's Full Moon Number Two Message-ID: <3AFE2432.D3DF4A6D@ljusdal.se> You can always make a small opening on the box, and put a thin aluminum foil with a pinhole there. That will give you a real super-super wideangle pinhole camera. Then you can try to trade it in for a 903SWC. Lars Stein wrote: > Dear Friends, > > It's that time again. > > As I stumbled out of the darkroom this afternoon - pasty pale, > coughing, and woozy ( I love photography.) I saw the pile of old paper boxes > has almost reached critical mass. There they sit, yellow, white, and orange, > perfect condition, well made, too good the throw out, and empty. > > I use 8 x 10 paper - the boxes are the 100 size. A few 125 boxes from > Agfa as they have had a promotion around here recently. A few mounting > tissue boxes. > > What I need is a good idea about what can be done with them. I favour > recycling in photography - hence my use of old out of date RC paper for > toilet tissue in the guest bathroom - and I just can't bring myself to throw > them out. > > The Second Full Moon Contest is simple. There are two prizes that will > be posted out from Perth. One goes for the BEST idea for using up the paper > boxes and one goes for the WORST* idea. Just post your ideas on the HB list > before the 27th of May and I'll announce the winners at the end of the > month. > > Prizes? As Nixon would have said....Trust me. > > Uncle Dick > > PS: Here is the Hasselblad link for the posting. I bought an outboard > charger today that charges up the batteries for the EL series - so Ican use > the ELX while the next day's batteries are filling up. It is the metal case > that goes under the EL series. > > I paid $ 50 US for it. Did I get a good deal or did I get done? > > * Note spelling. No German sausage jokes, danke. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > The Hasselblad Users Group Listserv is a public service of Absolute Internet, Inc., which is not responsible for its content. This mailing list is in no way affiliated with Victor Hasselblad AB, it's subsidiaries, or affiliates. > > Please turn off HTML mail features prior to posting to this list. Use text mode only. > > To change your subscription status, go to: http://mail.kelvin.net/guest/RemoteListSummary/Hasselblad > Digest archives are stored at http://www.kelvin.net/hasselblad/hassy.htm > Searchable archives can be found at http://www.listquest.com/arts/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 23:00:49 -0700 From: Mark Rabiner To: Stein , hasselblad@kelvin.net Subject: Re: First Good Idea Message-ID: <3AFE2311.D634C7ED@rabiner.cncoffice.com> > Dear Friends, > > I have just read Mark Rabiner's response to the second Full Moon contest and it has caused a train of thought to pull out of the mental station. All aboard, folks. > > The paper boxes that are currently cluttering up the darkroom and storeroom are all stout cardboard folded and glued with the name of the manufacturer overprinted on a paper wrapper. In the nature of their use, they are a tight fit between top and bottom. In some cases the individual information about that box of papaer ie colour or B/W, grade, surface, etc is printed on a sticker that wraps around one end. Basic stuff - no surprises. > > When the box is empty it would indeed make a good storage box for some of the paper that was inside it originally inasmuch as it is the right size - this is assuming you want the prints to sit unmounted or to sit in a very narrow mount. Mark pointed this out. I am going to have to defer to greater experts than myself to say whether paper that has undergone the chemical washings and transformation of processing will be as happy to sit in that confined cardboard box as it was in the unexposed state. My definition of archival processing is the picture is still visible when the client's cheque is deposited in my account.... > > But the paper box always carries the bright colour and advertising logo of the manufacturer so use as a presentation or portfolio box is somewhat problematical. Your best wedding shown to the next prospective bridal couple in the bright purple Agdak box with the paper grade label half torn off sort of defeats the proposal. > > What a good idea if the manufacturers - Agdak, Koji, Fufa, Ilness, etc were to package their paper in a PLAIN WHITE BOX - or a plain red, yellow, or green box- and put ALL of the advertising logo on a sticker on the side in the normal manner. And then possibly shrink-wrap the box with a further plastic wrapper carrying as much logo and advertising as they wish. Then we poor grubs who buy it would peel off the stickers and use the boxes much as Mark has suggested. > > We might even be pursuaded to pay just a little extra for the new packaging - considering we are buying a useful container rather than more trash for the compactor. > > ARE YOU LISTENING IN LEVERKUSEN AND ROCHESTER? > > Uncle Dick > (I couldn't bare to snip Uncle Dick) Yes! the boxes the paper came in are best left for untoned RC prints, and reject fibers. Long term storage in non archival cardboard would make for non archival prints. But you could shuffle them around a lot! :) I give the clients and friend their prints in these boxes. Stops them from folding and other wise mutilating them in the backseats of their car on the way home until they thumbtack them to their walls when they get there. Envelopes have to be stiffened and that's a pain. They LOVE the boxes! They do make from light impressions an assortment of black and colored boxes of the proper materials, and varied thicknesses which are more suited to your best heavily toned, cleared, washed,and flattened efforts. But i find the (in my case) Ilford boxes quite handy. The problem though with handing out prints in these boxes is you have to hope your image you've slaved all night in the darkroom for is better than the cute little black and white image on the box. It usually isn't. Or compares badly. So I'll tape over the little picture and cross out the photographers signature to lessen the blow; to my fragile ego. Mark Rabiner Portland, Oregon USA http://www.rabiner.cncoffice.com/ ------------------------------ End of hasselblad V1 #1225 ************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The Hasselblad Users Group Listserv is a public service of Absolute Internet, Inc., which is not responsible for its content. This mailing list is in no way affiliated with Victor Hasselblad AB, it's subsidiaries, or affiliates. Please turn off HTML mail features prior to posting to this list. Use text mode only. To change your subscription status, go to: http://mail.kelvin.net/guest/RemoteListSummary/Hasselblad Digest archives are stored at http://www.kelvin.net/hasselblad/hassy.htm Searchable archives can be found at http://www.listquest.com/arts/index.html