hasselblad Sat, 9 Sep 2000 Volume 1 : Number 983 In this issue: Re: The Spirit of the Company SV: The Spirit of the Company Re: The Spirit of the Company Re: The Spirit of the Company Re: The Spirit of the Company Re: The Spirit of the Company SV: The Spirit of the Company Re: Sekonic meter F/S Re: Sekonic meter F/S Re: The Spirit of the Company Re: Sekonic meter F/S Re: SV: The Spirit of the Company Re: Sekonic meter F/S Re: Sekonic meter F/S Re: Sekonic meter F/S Re: Sekonic meter F/S Re: Sekonic meter F/S RE: The Spirit of the Company RE: The Spirit of the Company ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 06:14:13 -0400 From: Colin Monteith To: hasselblad@kelvin.net Subject: Re: The Spirit of the Company Message-ID: <39B8BBF5.DDBA34A5@sympatico.ca> DavidG6028@aol.com wrote: > How many of us > have watched our $3,000 Personal Computers turn worthless over 3 years time? > I sold my 25 year old 500c/m for more than I paid for it. > > Yes, Hasselblad needs to always keep watching behind itself, and should never > quit striving for better product; but if we want to be able to buy > replacement equipment 5 or 10 years from now, the company has to SURVIVE as > well. > > -David And owning a 25 year old camera in a vertical or niche market is yet another reason that I suspect Hasselblad will fail or disappear in its current format. No repeat customers in a world that thrives on repeat business such as computer manufacturers or companies like Nikon, Canon etc. Hasselblad and Leica are going to have to go down market (aka mass market) to get enough sales and therefore profits to develop new products and meet the digital freight train coming down the track. Having 3rd party digital backs does little for them. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 15:07:37 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?ULF_SJ=D6GREN?= To: Subject: SV: The Spirit of the Company Message-ID: <000901c01995$c3933580$da8097d4@s101194> And the value of a 25 year old digital camera will be? = ...............$ or =A3 Availability of spare parts for a digital camera is limeted to? = ................. months/ weeks Difficult questions isn't it? And another thing. Some books I use to and fro' in my job are available = on CD. But I don't like reading lots of text from a computor (or any = other) screen. I prefer print on paper. And that goes for almost anobody = I know. And, Good pictures I prefer to see on paper or as prjected on a = white screen. It is funny and it is quick with those digital pictures, I = have a digital camera myself but I am not so fond of looking at the = pictures in pixles... Ulf ----- Ursprungligt meddelande -----=20 Fr=E5n: "Colin Monteith" Till: Skickat: den 8 september 2000 12:14 =C4mne: Re: The Spirit of the Company >=20 >=20 > DavidG6028@aol.com wrote: >=20 > > How many of us > > have watched our $3,000 Personal Computers turn worthless over 3 = years time? > > I sold my 25 year old 500c/m for more than I paid for it. > > > > Yes, Hasselblad needs to always keep watching behind itself, and = should never > > quit striving for better product; but if we want to be able to buy > > replacement equipment 5 or 10 years from now, the company has to = SURVIVE as > > well. > > > > -David >=20 > And owning a 25 year old camera in a vertical or niche market is yet = another reason that I suspect Hasselblad will fail or disappear in its = current format. No repeat customers in a world that thrives on repeat = business such as > computer manufacturers or companies like Nikon, Canon etc. Hasselblad = and Leica are going to have to go down market (aka mass market) to get = enough sales and therefore profits to develop new products and meet the = digital freight > train coming down the track. Having 3rd party digital backs does = little for them. >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > The Hasselblad Users Group Listserv is a public service of Absolute = Internet, Inc., which is not responsible for its content. This mailing = list is in no way affiliated with Victor Hasselblad AB, it's = subsidiaries, or affiliates. >=20 > To change your subscription status, go to: = http://mail.kelvin.net/guest/RemoteListSummary/Hasselblad > Digest archives are stored at = http://www.kelvin.net/hasselblad/hassy.htm > Searchable archives can be found at = http://www.listquest.com/arts/index.html >=20 >=20 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 09:43:01 EDT From: InfinityDT@aol.com To: hasselblad@kelvin.net Subject: Re: The Spirit of the Company Message-ID: In a message dated 9/8/00 6:16:45 AM Eastern Daylight Time, monteith1@sympatico.ca writes: << And owning a 25 year old camera in a vertical or niche market is yet another reason that I suspect Hasselblad will fail or disappear in its current format. No repeat customers in a world that thrives on repeat business such as computer manufacturers or companies like Nikon, Canon etc. Hasselblad and Leica are going to have to go down market (aka mass market) to get enough sales and therefore profits to develop new products and meet the digital freight train coming down the track. Having 3rd party digital backs does little for them. >> First I've heard that Hasselblad has a problem with repeat business. Can't compare with Leica because unlike Hasselblad they aren't the staple of a huge proportion of commercial pros, and unlike Hasselblad their most-technologically-advanced 35mm camera is about a decade or more behind their competition. (OTOH, the purists, nostalgists, collectors, aesthetes and masochists--like me--help keep them afloat). I also think that the current crop of 3rd-party digital backs are disappointing, but should some 3rd party come up with a digital back compatible with all including the 500-series, that costs under $5000 and has resolution at least comparable to a top-quality medium-format scanner, it would be an instant hit and a boost to sales. Hasselblad would be wise to comission such a product, like they do the D-Flash for example. But their *huge* mistake would be making it only compatible with databus bodies. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 11:38:27 -0400 From: "Stuart Phillips" To: "Q.G. de Bakker" , Subject: Re: The Spirit of the Company Message-ID: <003a01c01818$8106eb90$3674799e@umb.edu> Am I the only one to be disappointed by the appearance of a Hasselblad boutique? Sweatshirts, pens, crystal cameras, tacky shoulder bags - what gives? I know Harvard College now puts its brandname on everything short of condoms, but Hasselblad? I'd rather they expand the brand into other cameras (even APS, for God's sake) than this crap. stuart Stuart Phillips Assistant Director of Professional Training Programs Division of Corporate, Continuing and Distance Education University of Massachusetts Boston 100 Morrissey Blvd Boston Ma 02125-3393 Phone: (617) 287 7289 Fax: (617) 287 7297 ----- Original Message ----- From: Q.G. de Bakker To: Sent: Friday, September 08, 2000 12:59 AM Subject: Re: The Spirit of the Company > InfinityDT@aol.com wrote: > > > I strongly agree. And it would be naive to think that Hasselblad or any > > company today rides solely on the opinion of "bean counters". Decisions > are > > made by committee, including inputs from Marketing, PR, and R&D. At all > the > > business management seminars I have attended it has been stressed that the > > cost of engendering customer loyalty will result in much greater profits > from > > increased sales volume and word-of-mouth (read: free) advertising than all > > but the most massive in-product cost-cutting measures. In fact, > in-product > > or in-service cost-cutting, along with rebates, are two signs of a company > in > > distress which even un-savvy consumers recognize intuitively. That > > negatively impacts sales, making those cost-cutting measures in fact > > counterproductive. Although it may be the "bean counters" job only to > count > > beans, they too are aware of the foregoing. > > Yet there is a very clear difference between: > > "Those of us who took over from the founding generation had and still have > the guiding objective of developing the company and its products, with our > actions based upon an unaltered set of basic principles - with focus on the > customer and with the maximum possible quality down to the most minute > details. > This is an element in the explanation of our success. Another important > element is niche strategy. What is then meant by a niche strategy? Well, it > means that we at Hasselblad have concentrated upon a small niche of the > market and have not leered after the large mass market. Our products are > directed towards those customers who, for quality reasons, require a larger > picture format than that given by 35mm film and who wish to have a camera of > the absolute highest quality. [...]" > > Jerry Öster, President and C.E.O. of Victor Hasselblad AB in 1991. > > And: > > "Hasselblad is one of Sweden's most well-known companies with a great > potential in its trademark. The primary goal for the company will be > to develop this potential into further volume growth through intensified > product development and marketing." > > President and C.E.O, Göran Bernhoff in 1997. > > Not a word about photography, customers, building quality products, etc., > etc. Only marketing goals. > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > The Hasselblad Users Group Listserv is a public service of Absolute Internet, Inc., which is not responsible for its content. This mailing list is in no way affiliated with Victor Hasselblad AB, it's subsidiaries, or affiliates. > > To change your subscription status, go to: http://mail.kelvin.net/guest/RemoteListSummary/Hasselblad > Digest archives are stored at http://www.kelvin.net/hasselblad/hassy.htm > Searchable archives can be found at http://www.listquest.com/arts/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 10:23:12 -0700 (PDT) From: "Chris J. DiBona" To: hasselblad@kelvin.net Cc: "Q.G. de Bakker" Subject: Re: The Spirit of the Company Message-ID: No you wouldn't! Can you imagine if you started seeing Hasselblad disposable cameras? I don't have a problem with hasselblad putting thier name on things, I don't have a problem with people buying tham. I judge the company on the quality of the camera, and I'm very happy with that.=20 Chris -- =20 Linux Community Evangelist, VA Linux Systems | http://www.valinux.com President, Silicon Valley Linux Users Group | http://www.svlug.org Grant Chair, Linux International. | http://www.li.org Co-editor, Open Sources=09 | http://www.dibona.com On Wed, 6 Sep 2000, Stuart Phillips wrote: > Am I the only one to be disappointed by the appearance of a Hasselblad > boutique? Sweatshirts, pens, crystal cameras, tacky shoulder bags - what > gives? I know Harvard College now puts its brandname on everything short= of > condoms, but Hasselblad? I'd rather they expand the brand into other > cameras (even APS, for God's sake) than this crap. >=20 > stuart > Stuart Phillips > Assistant Director of Professional Training Programs > Division of Corporate, Continuing and Distance Education > University of Massachusetts Boston >=20 > 100 Morrissey Blvd > Boston Ma > 02125-3393 >=20 > Phone: (617) 287 7289 > Fax: (617) 287 7297 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Q.G. de Bakker > To: > Sent: Friday, September 08, 2000 12:59 AM > Subject: Re: The Spirit of the Company >=20 >=20 > > InfinityDT@aol.com wrote: > > > > > I strongly agree. And it would be naive to think that Hasselblad or = any > > > company today rides solely on the opinion of "bean counters". > Decisions > > are > > > made by committee, including inputs from Marketing, PR, and R&D. At = all > > the > > > business management seminars I have attended it has been stressed tha= t > the > > > cost of engendering customer loyalty will result in much greater prof= its > > from > > > increased sales volume and word-of-mouth (read: free) advertising tha= n > all > > > but the most massive in-product cost-cutting measures. In fact, > > in-product > > > or in-service cost-cutting, along with rebates, are two signs of a > company > > in > > > distress which even un-savvy consumers recognize intuitively. That > > > negatively impacts sales, making those cost-cutting measures in fact > > > counterproductive. Although it may be the "bean counters" job only t= o > > count > > > beans, they too are aware of the foregoing. > > > > Yet there is a very clear difference between: > > > > "Those of us who took over from the founding generation had and still h= ave > > the guiding objective of developing the company and its products, with = our > > actions based upon an unaltered set of basic principles - with focus on > the > > customer and with the maximum possible quality down to the most minute > > details. > > This is an element in the explanation of our success. Another important > > element is niche strategy. What is then meant by a niche strategy? Well= , > it > > means that we at Hasselblad have concentrated upon a small niche of the > > market and have not leered after the large mass market. Our products ar= e > > directed towards those customers who, for quality reasons, require a > larger > > picture format than that given by 35mm film and who wish to have a came= ra > of > > the absolute highest quality. [...]" > > > > Jerry =D6ster, President and C.E.O. of Victor Hasselblad AB in 1991. > > > > And: > > > > "Hasselblad is one of Sweden's most well-known companies with a great > > potential in its trademark. The primary goal for the company will be > > to develop this potential into further volume growth through intensifie= d > > product development and marketing." > > > > President and C.E.O, G=F6ran Bernhoff in 1997. > > > > Not a word about photography, customers, building quality products, etc= =2E, > > etc. Only marketing goals. > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > The Hasselblad Users Group Listserv is a public service of Absolute > Internet, Inc., which is not responsible for its content. This mailing l= ist > is in no way affiliated with Victor Hasselblad AB, it's subsidiaries, or > affiliates. > > > > To change your subscription status, go to: > http://mail.kelvin.net/guest/RemoteListSummary/Hasselblad > > Digest archives are stored at http://www.kelvin.net/hasselblad/hassy.ht= m > > Searchable archives can be found at > http://www.listquest.com/arts/index.html >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > The Hasselblad Users Group Listserv is a public service of Absolute Inter= net, Inc., which is not responsible for its content. This mailing list is = in no way affiliated with Victor Hasselblad AB, it's subsidiaries, or affil= iates. >=20 > To change your subscription status, go to: http://mail.kelvin.net/guest/R= emoteListSummary/Hasselblad > Digest archives are stored at http://www.kelvin.net/hasselblad/hassy.htm > Searchable archives can be found at http://www.listquest.com/arts/index.h= tml >=20 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 19:43:51 +0200 From: "Q.G. de Bakker" To: Subject: Re: The Spirit of the Company Message-ID: <03f901c019bc$5b20dbc0$65dbf1c3@qnu99> Chris J. DiBona wrote: > No you wouldn't! Can you imagine if you started seeing Hasselblad > disposable cameras? I don't have a problem with hasselblad putting thier > name on things, I don't have a problem with people buying tham. > > I judge the company on the quality of the camera, and I'm very happy with > that. A very important part of the "potential in its trademark" is Hasselblad's well deserved name as a builder of high quality photographic gear. No trade-offs were allowed to cater for a larger, or even mass, market (viz. Mr. Öster's statement). As a result Hasselblad has come to be synonymous with *uncompromising* quality. If Hasselblad now should choose to cash in on this well earned reputation (as Mr. by Bernhoff suggests) by associating its name with products that don't live up to this reputation, the name, and its potential will erode very rapidly (look, for instance, at the harm done to the reputation (and market success) of the entire 2000-series by the initial problems with the 2000 FC). Associating the Hasselblad name with 'sub-standard' products (or even splitting their program into a two tier system (one high-end, one 'Basic') for the sake of exploiting the potential in their reputation) is a dangerous thing to do. So yes, i think there is a problem with Hasselblad putting their name on 'things'. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 19:49:42 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?ULF_SJ=D6GREN?= To: Cc: "Q.G. de Bakker" Subject: SV: The Spirit of the Company Message-ID: <000d01c019bd$2bd58220$ec8897d4@s101194> I think I started this discussion..... I don't feel sorry about that but = I think I must give you the background. From 1963 to -78 I lived in Gothenburg, interested in photography = already then since more than ten years. Gothenburg was not a big city, = in those days around 400.000 or so. Some of my friends worked at the = Hasselblad company and I was there some times. It was a fine company = with good reputation already in those days and my friends were very = proud of their employer. Of course it is still a good company with = excellent products, but it is not the same. I understand that = everything must change, else it dies. But even if it is nostalgia, it = was a nicer time in many ways, nice and comparatively friendly, maybe = that is what I miss. Anyhow, the focusing screens are better now....... = ;-). On the other hand I read a very positive letter (here?9 a year ago = from a H-blad owner who visited the factory during his vacation and as = it was in the winter there were no guides. But someone from the sales = dept. showed him round and he also had a little chat with the one who = had set his camera togather. That can be read out of the manufacturing = number.. So........maybe things are not so bad after all.......... Ulf ----- Ursprungligt meddelande -----=20 Fr=E5n: "Chris J. DiBona" Till: Kopia: "Q.G. de Bakker" Skickat: den 8 september 2000 19:23 =C4mne: Re: The Spirit of the Company No you wouldn't! Can you imagine if you started seeing Hasselblad disposable cameras? I don't have a problem with hasselblad putting thier name on things, I don't have a problem with people buying tham. I judge the company on the quality of the camera, and I'm very happy = with that.=20 Chris -- =20 Linux Community Evangelist, VA Linux Systems | http://www.valinux.com President, Silicon Valley Linux Users Group | http://www.svlug.org Grant Chair, Linux International. | http://www.li.org Co-editor, Open Sources | http://www.dibona.com On Wed, 6 Sep 2000, Stuart Phillips wrote: > Am I the only one to be disappointed by the appearance of a Hasselblad > boutique? Sweatshirts, pens, crystal cameras, tacky shoulder bags - = what > gives? I know Harvard College now puts its brandname on everything = short of > condoms, but Hasselblad? I'd rather they expand the brand into other > cameras (even APS, for God's sake) than this crap. >=20 > stuart > Stuart Phillips > Assistant Director of Professional Training Programs > Division of Corporate, Continuing and Distance Education > University of Massachusetts Boston >=20 > 100 Morrissey Blvd > Boston Ma > 02125-3393 >=20 > Phone: (617) 287 7289 > Fax: (617) 287 7297 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Q.G. de Bakker > To: > Sent: Friday, September 08, 2000 12:59 AM > Subject: Re: The Spirit of the Company >=20 >=20 > > InfinityDT@aol.com wrote: > > > > > I strongly agree. And it would be naive to think that Hasselblad = or any > > > company today rides solely on the opinion of "bean counters". > Decisions > > are > > > made by committee, including inputs from Marketing, PR, and R&D. = At all > > the > > > business management seminars I have attended it has been stressed = that > the > > > cost of engendering customer loyalty will result in much greater = profits > > from > > > increased sales volume and word-of-mouth (read: free) advertising = than > all > > > but the most massive in-product cost-cutting measures. In fact, > > in-product > > > or in-service cost-cutting, along with rebates, are two signs of a > company > > in > > > distress which even un-savvy consumers recognize intuitively. = That > > > negatively impacts sales, making those cost-cutting measures in = fact > > > counterproductive. Although it may be the "bean counters" job = only to > > count > > > beans, they too are aware of the foregoing. > > > > Yet there is a very clear difference between: > > > > "Those of us who took over from the founding generation had and = still have > > the guiding objective of developing the company and its products, = with our > > actions based upon an unaltered set of basic principles - with focus = on > the > > customer and with the maximum possible quality down to the most = minute > > details. > > This is an element in the explanation of our success. Another = important > > element is niche strategy. What is then meant by a niche strategy? = Well, > it > > means that we at Hasselblad have concentrated upon a small niche of = the > > market and have not leered after the large mass market. Our products = are > > directed towards those customers who, for quality reasons, require a > larger > > picture format than that given by 35mm film and who wish to have a = camera > of > > the absolute highest quality. [...]" > > > > Jerry =D6ster, President and C.E.O. of Victor Hasselblad AB in 1991. > > > > And: > > > > "Hasselblad is one of Sweden's most well-known companies with a = great > > potential in its trademark. The primary goal for the company will be > > to develop this potential into further volume growth through = intensified > > product development and marketing." > > > > President and C.E.O, G=F6ran Bernhoff in 1997. > > > > Not a word about photography, customers, building quality products, = etc., > > etc. Only marketing goals. > > > > > > > > = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > The Hasselblad Users Group Listserv is a public service of Absolute > Internet, Inc., which is not responsible for its content. This = mailing list > is in no way affiliated with Victor Hasselblad AB, it's subsidiaries, = or > affiliates. > > > > To change your subscription status, go to: > http://mail.kelvin.net/guest/RemoteListSummary/Hasselblad > > Digest archives are stored at = http://www.kelvin.net/hasselblad/hassy.htm > > Searchable archives can be found at > http://www.listquest.com/arts/index.html >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > The Hasselblad Users Group Listserv is a public service of Absolute = Internet, Inc., which is not responsible for its content. This mailing = list is in no way affiliated with Victor Hasselblad AB, it's = subsidiaries, or affiliates. >=20 > To change your subscription status, go to: = http://mail.kelvin.net/guest/RemoteListSummary/Hasselblad > Digest archives are stored at = http://www.kelvin.net/hasselblad/hassy.htm > Searchable archives can be found at = http://www.listquest.com/arts/index.html >=20 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The Hasselblad Users Group Listserv is a public service of Absolute = Internet, Inc., which is not responsible for its content. This mailing = list is in no way affiliated with Victor Hasselblad AB, it's = subsidiaries, or affiliates. To change your subscription status, go to: = http://mail.kelvin.net/guest/RemoteListSummary/Hasselblad Digest archives are stored at http://www.kelvin.net/hasselblad/hassy.htm Searchable archives can be found at = http://www.listquest.com/arts/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 17:10:41 EDT From: Photovilla@aol.com To: hasselblad@kelvin.net Subject: Re: Sekonic meter F/S Message-ID: <7c.ab3105c.26eaafd1@aol.com> << Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 09:32:27 -0400 From: Henry Posner/B&H Photo-Video To: Subject: Re: Sekonic meter F/S Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000907093159.00b72ee0@bnhpop1.bhphotovideo.com> At 03:35 AM 09/07/2000, you wrote: >for reference the B&H price = US$749.95 + shipping The current price of the Sekonic L778 meter at B&H = 669.00 + s&h. -- regards, Henry Posner Director of Sales and Training B&H Photo-Video, and Pro-Audio Inc. http://www.bhphotovideo.com >> Henry, You once told me you are a stickler for the rules... Well, by advertising the "dealer net" here as your price, aren't you violating Mamiya's M.A.P. program. I'm pretty sure they apply this program to Internet advertising as well as print. Yes, I know we all sell the meters at this price...but the MAP is about the advertising after all, not the price given when someone is in your store or calls. I am going to give them a call and find out for sure. later, Rich ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 17:41:37 EDT From: InfinityDT@aol.com To: hasselblad@kelvin.net Subject: Re: Sekonic meter F/S Message-ID: <3d.ad58a2.26eab711@aol.com> In a message dated 9/8/00 5:11:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Photovilla@aol.com writes: << >for reference the B&H price = US$749.95 + shipping The current price of the Sekonic L778 meter at B&H = 669.00 + s&h. -- regards, Henry Posner Director of Sales and Training B&H Photo-Video, and Pro-Audio Inc. http://www.bhphotovideo.com >> Henry, You once told me you are a stickler for the rules... Well, by advertising the "dealer net" here as your price, aren't you violating Mamiya's M.A.P. program. I'm pretty sure they apply this program to Internet advertising as well as print. Yes, I know we all sell the meters at this price...but the MAP is about the advertising after all, not the price given when someone is in your store or calls. I am going to give them a call and find out for sure. later, Rich >> I posted the price I saw in the B&H "Summer 2000" catalog as a reference to my selling price for a used one. Do you guys think that because the "real" price was $669 instead of $749.50 as advertised it would have swayed the gentleman who purchased my meter for the $325 I was asking, to buy a new one from one of you guys? I know I'd think long and hard before spending over $600 on a meter...again. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 19:51:09 -0400 From: Colin Monteith To: hasselblad@kelvin.net Subject: Re: The Spirit of the Company Message-ID: <39B97B6D.9667ECC2@sympatico.ca> InfinityDT@aol.com wrote: > First I've heard that Hasselblad has a problem with repeat business. My point was that selling you a camera at the frequency most Hasselblad owners pick one up is a sure fire recipe for failure. Lets say perhaps a Hasselblad keeps going in circulation for an average of 25 years. The average life span of almost any other cameras outside of Leica is only about 5 years. I know that I saw some stats from Nikon and thats exactly what they found. So its repeat and higher sales with lower volume based manufacturing costs and bigger profits for Nikon etc. and the opposite for Hassy. Does anyone know what the Hasselblad margin is on say a 503CW or something like that? I would bet its not that great and distributors likely make way more. The markup in stores is quite high as the goods sit on the shelf for a long time and stores have to build in finance costs. I would be surprised if a Hassy left the manufacturing plant for any more than about 50% of what we end up paying for them in stores. Put another way, if I can buy a Hassy item from someone who brings it in from HK at about 30% less than the lowest store then you know what is built into your final price from B&H etc. And that 30% discount is after 2 or 3 people have already taken their post manufacturing cut. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 19:57:44 -0400 From: Marcober To: hasselblad@kelvin.net Subject: Re: Sekonic meter F/S Message-ID: <39B97CF8.FBF35285@gate.net> I do not understand why some of you keep giving Mr. Posner such a difficult time about everything. Some of you sound like frustrated adolescents. Please find something constructive with your free time. I, for one think his input is valuable. Buy, or dont buy from B&H, but leave him input as he sees fit. Wht harm does it do? Continuing with the crap is going t water down this group like so many other things lately in this country. Everything eventually gets boring. Do we all want to be police of one kind or another? Get a life and grow up. MB InfinityDT@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 9/8/00 5:11:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > Photovilla@aol.com writes: > > << >for reference the B&H price = US$749.95 + shipping > > The current price of the Sekonic L778 meter at B&H = 669.00 + s&h. > > -- > regards, > Henry Posner > Director of Sales and Training > B&H Photo-Video, and Pro-Audio Inc. > http://www.bhphotovideo.com > >> > > Henry, > > You once told me you are a stickler for the rules... > > Well, by advertising the "dealer net" here as your price, aren't you > violating Mamiya's M.A.P. program. I'm pretty sure they apply this program > to > Internet advertising as well as print. > > Yes, I know we all sell the meters at this price...but the MAP is about the > advertising after all, not the price given when someone is in your store or > calls. > > I am going to give them a call and find out for sure. > > later, > Rich >> > > I posted the price I saw in the B&H "Summer 2000" catalog as a reference to > my selling price for a used one. Do you guys think that because the "real" > price was $669 instead of $749.50 as advertised it would have swayed the > gentleman who purchased my meter for the $325 I was asking, to buy a new one > from one of you guys? I know I'd think long and hard before spending over > $600 on a meter...again. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > The Hasselblad Users Group Listserv is a public service of Absolute Internet, Inc., which is not responsible for its content. This mailing list is in no way affiliated with Victor Hasselblad AB, it's subsidiaries, or affiliates. > > To change your subscription status, go to: http://mail.kelvin.net/guest/RemoteListSummary/Hasselblad > Digest archives are stored at http://www.kelvin.net/hasselblad/hassy.htm > Searchable archives can be found at http://www.listquest.com/arts/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 20:00:24 -0400 From: Colin Monteith To: hasselblad@kelvin.net Subject: Re: SV: The Spirit of the Company Message-ID: <39B97D98.81EBE4@sympatico.ca> But that is exactly my point. From a manufacturers point of view (and the= ir survival) it does them absolutely no good that you have a camera thats= of good quality and you will hold onto for 25 years. The end value compa= red to a digital camera is not relevant. People are repeat buyers in a c= ouple of years with digital at the moment. In 25 years the mass market n= ame will have sold you 6 cameras and made much from you than Hasselblad w= ill have. Its all simple economics in today's throwaway world. I don't for one moment l= ike it but its also a factor in the more prosperous world we live in. If= everyone was like Hasselblad world average unemployment would be 2 or 3 = times what it is as everything would last like it used to. Remember the g= ood old days!!!!! ULF SJ=D6GREN wrote: > And the value of a 25 year old digital camera will be? = ...............$ or =A3 > > Availability of spare parts for a digital camera is limeted to? = ................. months/ weeks > Difficult questions isn't it? > And another thing. Some books I use to and fro' in my job are availabl= e on CD. But I don't like reading lots of text from a computor (or any ot= her) screen. I prefer print on paper. And that goes for almost anobody I = know. And, Good pictures I prefer to see on paper or as prjected on a whi= te screen. It is funny and it is quick with those digital pictures, I hav= e a digital camera myself but I am not so fond of looking at the pictures= in pixles... > Ulf > ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- > Fr=E5n: "Colin Monteith" > Till: > Skickat: den 8 september 2000 12:14 > =C4mne: Re: The Spirit of the Company > > > > > > > DavidG6028@aol.com wrote: > > > > > How many of us > > > have watched our $3,000 Personal Computers turn worthless over 3 ye= ars time? > > > I sold my 25 year old 500c/m for more than I paid for it. > > > > > > Yes, Hasselblad needs to always keep watching behind itself, and sh= ould never > > > quit striving for better product; but if we want to be able to buy > > > replacement equipment 5 or 10 years from now, the company has to SU= RVIVE as > > > well. > > > > > > -David > > > > And owning a 25 year old camera in a vertical or niche market is yet = another reason that I suspect Hasselblad will fail or disappear in its cu= rrent format. No repeat customers in a world that thrives on repeat busin= ess such as > > computer manufacturers or companies like Nikon, Canon etc. Hasselblad= and Leica are going to have to go down market (aka mass market) to get e= nough sales and therefore profits to develop new products and meet the di= gital freight > > train coming down the track. Having 3rd party digital backs does litt= le for them. > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------= - > > > > The Hasselblad Users Group Listserv is a public service of Absolute I= nternet, Inc., which is not responsible for its content. This mailing li= st is in no way affiliated with Victor Hasselblad AB, it's subsidiaries, = or affiliates. > > > > To change your subscription status, go to: http://mail.kelvin.net/gue= st/RemoteListSummary/Hasselblad > > Digest archives are stored at http://www.kelvin.net/hasselblad/hassy.= htm > > Searchable archives can be found at http://www.listquest.com/arts/ind= ex.html > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > The Hasselblad Users Group Listserv is a public service of Absolute Int= ernet, Inc., which is not responsible for its content. This mailing list= is in no way affiliated with Victor Hasselblad AB, it's subsidiaries, or= affiliates. > > To change your subscription status, go to: http://mail.kelvin.net/guest= /RemoteListSummary/Hasselblad > Digest archives are stored at http://www.kelvin.net/hasselblad/hassy.ht= m > Searchable archives can be found at http://www.listquest.com/arts/index= =2Ehtml ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 17:12:04 -0700 From: Jim Brick To: hasselblad@kelvin.net Subject: Re: Sekonic meter F/S Message-ID: <4.1.20000908171034.02b43840@xsj02.sjs.agilent.com> I quite agree! Jim At 07:57 PM 9/8/00 -0400, Marcober wrote: >I do not understand why some of you keep giving Mr. Posner such a difficult >time about everything. >Some of you sound like frustrated adolescents. Please find something >constructive with your free time. >I, for one think his input is valuable. Buy, or dont buy from B&H, but leave >him input as he sees fit. Wht harm does it do? >Continuing with the crap is going t water down this group like so many other >things lately in this country. Everything eventually gets boring. Do we all >want to be police of one kind or another? Get a life and grow up. >MB > >InfinityDT@aol.com wrote: > ... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 20:11:06 EDT From: JCurcio@aol.com To: hasselblad@kelvin.net Subject: Re: Sekonic meter F/S Message-ID: <44.6fc6ba8.26eada1a@aol.com> In a message dated 9/8/00 5:43:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, InfinityDT@aol.com writes: << I posted the price I saw in the B&H "Summer 2000" catalog as a reference to my selling price for a used one. >> I have the Summer 2000 B&H Catalog right in front of me. It shows a Sekonic L778 for $749.95. I don't if that's the Sekonic model we're dealing with or whether there's been a more recent price reduction. I just do know that the poster's reference to the price in the B&H Summer 2000 catalog for the L778 is correct. I don't, however, have a problem with Henry's giving us more up to date information. In fact, I appreciate that. Looks to me like for once, everybody's right. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 20:16:49 EDT From: InfinityDT@aol.com To: hasselblad@kelvin.net Subject: Re: Sekonic meter F/S Message-ID: <15.8f6b7c7.26eadb71@aol.com> In a message dated 9/8/00 7:58:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, marcober@gate.net writes: << I do not understand why some of you keep giving Mr. Posner such a difficult time about everything. Some of you sound like frustrated adolescents. Please find something constructive with your free time. I, for one think his input is valuable. Buy, or dont buy from B&H, but leave him input as he sees fit. Wht harm does it do? >> I also am a frequent customer of B&H. I also appreciate Henry's inputs. B&H is the bellwether of new-camera prices which is why I quoted their catalog in the first place. I don't quarrel with Henry updating the catalog price for our benefit. He works for the company, he's simply being diligent. It was Mr. Photovilla, who I'm just guessing from his post is a dealer himself, who seems to want a piece of Henry, not me. I'm just a serious amateur who had something to sell. Sorry if it appeared I was jumping into the fray. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 20:20:27 -0400 From: Marcober To: hasselblad@kelvin.net Subject: Re: Sekonic meter F/S Message-ID: <39B9824B.8B8BEA32@gate.net> Bravo, I agree. My point was not directed to you in particular. It was just an observation from my participation from other groups. Some groups have been so diluted from over vigilance against anyone even slightly using the group to make a buck that being politically correct and following rules to the extreme takes away much of the fun. Look at 42nd St. in NYC. Sure now its a clean and safe place to be, but not nearly as interesting as it once was. Some of you might remember the photographic possibilities of that neighborhood in days gone by. Now it is Orlando junior. If Disney rules our life, we will all have to find another avocation. MB JCurcio@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 9/8/00 5:43:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > InfinityDT@aol.com writes: > > << I posted the price I saw in the B&H "Summer 2000" catalog as a reference > to > my selling price for a used one. >> > > I have the Summer 2000 B&H Catalog right in front of me. It shows a Sekonic > L778 for $749.95. I don't if that's the Sekonic model we're dealing with or > whether there's been a more recent price reduction. I just do know that the > poster's reference to the price in the B&H Summer 2000 catalog for the L778 > is correct. I don't, however, have a problem with Henry's giving us more up > to date information. In fact, I appreciate that. Looks to me like for once, > everybody's right. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > The Hasselblad Users Group Listserv is a public service of Absolute Internet, Inc., which is not responsible for its content. This mailing list is in no way affiliated with Victor Hasselblad AB, it's subsidiaries, or affiliates. > > To change your subscription status, go to: http://mail.kelvin.net/guest/RemoteListSummary/Hasselblad > Digest archives are stored at http://www.kelvin.net/hasselblad/hassy.htm > Searchable archives can be found at http://www.listquest.com/arts/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 20:25:34 -0400 From: Marcober To: hasselblad@kelvin.net Subject: Re: Sekonic meter F/S Message-ID: <39B9837E.4C070087@gate.net> Let us let everyone offer what they have to offer and let the market decide. There is room for everyone, no? That philosophy will make us all rush to read the daily new postings. Constant criticism and tattle tailing (remember that expression?) will only make this group nasty and boring. Remember you heard it here first. Thanks for your ear (collective) MB InfinityDT@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 9/8/00 7:58:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, marcober@gate.net > writes: > > << I do not understand why some of you keep giving Mr. Posner such a > difficult time about everything. > Some of you sound like frustrated adolescents. Please find something > constructive with your free time. > I, for one think his input is valuable. Buy, or dont buy from B&H, but leave > him input as he sees fit. Wht harm does it do? >> > > I also am a frequent customer of B&H. I also appreciate Henry's inputs. B&H > is the bellwether of new-camera prices which is why I quoted their catalog in > the first place. I don't quarrel with Henry updating the catalog price for > our benefit. He works for the company, he's simply being diligent. It was > Mr. Photovilla, who I'm just guessing from his post is a dealer himself, who > seems to want a piece of Henry, not me. I'm just a serious amateur who had > something to sell. Sorry if it appeared I was jumping into the fray. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > The Hasselblad Users Group Listserv is a public service of Absolute Internet, Inc., which is not responsible for its content. This mailing list is in no way affiliated with Victor Hasselblad AB, it's subsidiaries, or affiliates. > > To change your subscription status, go to: http://mail.kelvin.net/guest/RemoteListSummary/Hasselblad > Digest archives are stored at http://www.kelvin.net/hasselblad/hassy.htm > Searchable archives can be found at http://www.listquest.com/arts/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 23:35:41 -0400 From: "Bruce Wilson" To: Subject: RE: The Spirit of the Company Message-ID: The Hasselblad/Fuji teaming seems to be a bit of a "mass market" entry. Didn't Leica try something similar 20 years ago with Minolta (Leica CL)? Bruce -----Original Message----- From: Colin Monteith [mailto:monteith1@sympatico.ca] Sent: Friday, September 08, 2000 6:14 AM To: hasselblad@kelvin.net Subject: Re: The Spirit of the Company DavidG6028@aol.com wrote: > How many of us > have watched our $3,000 Personal Computers turn worthless over 3 years time? > I sold my 25 year old 500c/m for more than I paid for it. > > Yes, Hasselblad needs to always keep watching behind itself, and should never > quit striving for better product; but if we want to be able to buy > replacement equipment 5 or 10 years from now, the company has to SURVIVE as > well. > > -David And owning a 25 year old camera in a vertical or niche market is yet another reason that I suspect Hasselblad will fail or disappear in its current format. No repeat customers in a world that thrives on repeat business such as computer manufacturers or companies like Nikon, Canon etc. Hasselblad and Leica are going to have to go down market (aka mass market) to get enough sales and therefore profits to develop new products and meet the digital freight train coming down the track. Having 3rd party digital backs does little for them. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The Hasselblad Users Group Listserv is a public service of Absolute Internet, Inc., which is not responsible for its content. This mailing list is in no way affiliated with Victor Hasselblad AB, it's subsidiaries, or affiliates. To change your subscription status, go to: http://mail.kelvin.net/guest/RemoteListSummary/Hasselblad Digest archives are stored at http://www.kelvin.net/hasselblad/hassy.htm Searchable archives can be found at http://www.listquest.com/arts/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 23:48:52 -0700 From: Jim Brick To: Subject: RE: The Spirit of the Company Message-ID: <200009090651.XAA25449@spoon.alink.net> At 11:35 PM 9/8/00 -0400, Bruce Wilson wrote: > > >The Hasselblad/Fuji teaming seems to be a bit of a "mass market" entry. >Didn't Leica try something similar 20 years ago with Minolta (Leica CL)? > >Bruce > Yes and Leica still has some Minolta lenses and a camera body in their line-up. Hasselblad also uses Keocera (spelling?) for things like the 60-120 zoom, 2x extender, and other lenses just marked "Hasselblad". Some Zeiss lenses are produced in Japan. Those on Contax and Yachica. Leica has both Zeiss and Schneider lenses in its arsenal. As does Hasselblad. Leica re-badges Fuji digital cameras as Leica digital cameras. Mix and match. It's a small world. Jim ------------------------------ End of hasselblad V1 #983 ************************* ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The Hasselblad Users Group Listserv is a public service of Absolute Internet, Inc., which is not responsible for its content. This mailing list is in no way affiliated with Victor Hasselblad AB, it's subsidiaries, or affiliates. To change your subscription status, go to: http://mail.kelvin.net/guest/RemoteListSummary/Hasselblad Digest archives are stored at http://www.kelvin.net/hasselblad/hassy.htm Searchable archives can be found at http://www.listquest.com/arts/index.html